My Swing (Good Ash)

[Good Ash]

I have been working on my shaft angle at P3, steadying my head, and remaining taller at through impact.  While experimenting with different feels and set ups, I think I am going to start incorporating a little forward shaft lean at setup (shaft pointed at first belt loop, or the rivet of my pocket).  When I do this, it is almost like the shaft has the correct angle at P3 without me needing to consciously do anything.  The other thing is that it really makes me feel like I need to extend through the ball and kick my hips up and forward to start the back swing.  For the extension, it is a feeling like I am almost driving my rear palm towards the ground through the impact zone.  With the hip move I really get a feeling of pushing off the ground going through my downswing.  

Right now, my practice swings need to be very sequenced to get it all correct and going through one swing takes 30 seconds to a minute.  My practice swing sequence has been; setup, check posture, check shaft, back swing to P3 and check position, finish to the top, pause, practice hip move, practice hip move, set hips then swing through at half speed with extension feeling.  After a couple of these, I try to do everything in one fluid motion, but I really have to just focus on tempo and giving myself time at the top to move my hips with the fluid swing.

These are definitely foreign feelings for me, but they appear to get me in better positions when watching my video but I will see what progress has actually been made next time at the range.

 

[Valleygolfer]

Nice swing. It looks like your left wrist needs to stay flatter a little longer. Almost like you are slightly out of sync and flipping the club a bit. This may just be a feel thing for me but a bit of a lateral slide through the swing gave me a better opportunity to keep the wrist flatter through the shot. I guess take it fwiw.

[Good Ash]

On 11/19/2016 at 0:17 AM, Valleygolfer said:

Nice swing. It looks like your left wrist needs to stay flatter a little longer. Almost like you are slightly out of sync and flipping the club a bit. This may just be a feel thing for me but a bit of a lateral slide through the swing gave me a better opportunity to keep the wrist flatter through the shot. I guess take it fwiw.

Thanks.  Yeah, I definitely need to work on my impact position.  I have a flip that is mostly after my hands get to the ball or a little past it.  I think the main cause of this is that I still am loosing my posture and dropping down a little.  Once I get the posture thing squared away, I will start to focus more on that.  

I ended up going to the range and then installing movie maker on my computer (thank you video editing software thread).  My hunching down is getting better but is still a ways off from where it needs to be.  On a side note, I think the forward shaft lean is putting the club in a good position at P3 and my more upright posture at address is starting to feel a little more natural.

I think the key for my head lunge is going to be to continue to work on getting my hips to slide forward (not my upper body) early in the transition and to start extending my lead leg.  The key for me will be to have a little patience at the top to allow this move to develop.

On a side note, I am beginning to see how hard it is to change a mistake I have been making for the last three years.  Oh well, I am making progress and I guess that's what counts.  

 

 

[carpediem4300]

Video is a bit dark but hover my mouse of your head on the FO view and your head doesnt move at all on the entire backswing, its only on the downswing it dips a little, I would be interested to see why you want to eliminate that? is it because you think it is causing a poor shot? or a type of shot?, alot of pro's dip their heads coming into impact from the video's I have watched, infact i was just watching rory and his head drops a few inches on the downswing even with his driver

other than that the swing looks very very nice!!!

The only thing I'd be concerned about is the though of "straightening your lead leg" if you do that too early you will start to snap the knee up which will hurt, and possibly cause some poor positions, unless your instructor has given you a reason to start doing it I wouldnt bother

[Good Ash]

Thank you for the feedback!

I mostly want to eliminate the head moving too far forward (1st priority) and for it to dip a little less (secondary).  The dipping and moving forward is causing me to have a little bend in my lead arm, by keeping my head up, I should have a more consistent shot.

For the "straightening my lead leg" I mean having a little more tilt towards the ball with my waist line through impact and to "push" off the ground a little bit more.  Right now I have been presetting this (when I do practice swings at quarter speed) before I start my downswing to get the feeling right but it isn't like I am snapping my leg straight or anything, I would say it is more of a "gentle raising and sliding" of my hip as the preset motion I am doing.  We haven't gotten to this part of my swing through my analysis (he just mentioned that hip angel would be the next part) so I will see what my instructor actually says and if I should be focusing on a different movement.  

[iacas]

@Good Ash, did you get your evolvr analysis back? You uploaded the project files, not movie/video files, so we couldn't do anything with it.

[Good Ash]

I thought I would upload a video of what my practice is like.  I probably do this same move for thirty minutes at night, and another 10-15 at random periods throughout the day.  I am trying to get the feeling of having some extension through my lower body and really having the downswing lead by my lower body.  When I looked back at my earlier videos, it looks like my first move was a dropping and forward slide of the hips and swinging from the top a little.  I think that if I can get this sequenced more ingrained it will help keep me from lunging down at the ball as much and keep me in a better position to make more consistent contact.  I am hesitant to really go full speed except for when I do my once a week "test sessions" at the range.  I did notice in the video from my last range session my hips did look a little better, at least I think.  My taller posture is getting to the point of almost being automatic now, so at least I have that going for me....which is nice.

 

 

[Good Ash]

Got some video at the range today, pretty much looks the same as the last, but there are some subtle differences and my head does look a little steadier.  The other thing that I have been trying to work on is keeping my rear elbow toward my chest a little more.  I have noticed that this has limited my back swing a little but I feel much more synchronized with my upper body and my hips going through the downswing this way.

While fooling around with Kinovea a little I edited my latest DTL video and think I am now understanding why i need to work on my shaft angle at P3 (which I thought was cured, but video doesn't lie).  It is pretty apparent that I come back shallow green path and then reroute to a steeper path on my downswing.  If I come back steeper, and reroute to a shallower path I think my consistency will improve.  I also noticed that my down swing path (shown in pink) has the club pass ever so slightly outside my hands on the downswing which I think helps explain why I get so many different shot shapes during a round. Can someone please verify it this is an accurate statement?

Anyways, I really like the elbow feeling so I will continue to work on that and getting my takeaway to be a little steeper.

 

 

[RandallT]

6 hours ago, Good Ash said:

 I also noticed that my down swing path (shown in pink) has the club pass ever so slightly outside my hands on the downswing which I think helps explain why I get so many different shot shapes during a round. Can someone please verify it this is an accurate statement?

try to watch this Chris como video in its entirety.  totally wonky but it helped me grasp why getting shallower on the downswing is better from a physics standpoint and being able to deliver the club more consistently to the ball. 

[Good Ash]

Thanks RandallT, that video was really informative and definitely changes my impression of what the golf swing actually is.  

I have received my last videos back from Evolvr and these swing planes are my new priority piece.  I have been practicing taking the club back a little steeper and on a steady line and it is definitely a different feeling, but one that I think I should get before too long.  It feels like I am almost drawing a half circle with the club head when I start my downing because of how steep I am at the top.  Is this the feeling that others got when they incorporated these changes and worked on correcting their steepness?

 

[RandallT]

Yes I had that half circle feeling.  Lately it has been more of a left forearm rotation feeling though. 

I feel at A2 when the face is hooded a bit that my forearm starts then to rotate back smoothly such that at A4 it puts the club at the right spot. Dunno if makes sense but a nice continuous steady feel of forearm ending at A4, with flat wrist at top. 

It goes with that circle feeling but im more able to duplicate it when I get the forearm feeling.  Also promotes the steep to flat sensation.

Disclaimer: I'm a student like u!! Ymmv. Just wanted to share feels in case helps 

[Good Ash]

All I have to say is wow and I need to get to the range right now.  I have been hitting some balls in the basement and this feeling of effortless speed with the club is amazing!  I watched the video again and just started experimenting with slow one arm swings and different club head positions (in relation to being inside and outside my hands) and I was blown away at the differences in speed based on position, and what speed you are capable of producing with such a slow arm swing.  

Since then I have been taking a couple practice swings and it almost feels like if I try to keep the shaft horizontal (feeling of pulling the entire shaft and club head down at the same rate - but I don't know what I am actually doing) I have this effortless power.

This new shaft position at P3 and inside feeling is going to take some getting used to but man am I excited to take this outside and can tell why this is worth working on.

[Good Ash]

Finally got to go to the range today to get some more footage for another evolvr video, and just as I suspected, this new feeling really resulted in some great shots.  I don't think I hit one fade the entire time.  I hit a lot of high draws that had quite a bit of movement to them.  I thought I had the back-swing nailed but it unfortunately looks exactly the same as it did (green line was shaft angle at P3)so I will keep working away at that.  I also noticed a little more toward the ball movement with my head than I would like so I will have to keep an eye on this going forward, it was only an inch or two but I don't want that problem to creep back up.

I noticed that my downswing path with that new feeling was flattening out (represented by the purple to rose colored lines represent my shaft angles at P4.5 through P5.5- the ball is on the middle line).

I noticed that my distance was quite good, even with the shots I seemed to be going easy on.  I think that I have misunderstood lag for quite some time.   I always thought it was a vertical hinging but after my range session I would say this was "lag" and I was just trying to keep the club head further behind me "horizontal".  If this is the case, then I have to say shame on you to every golf digest illustration showing lag from the Face on View, and if this wasn't lag, I don't care because I liked it!!!

One last thing, I have been extremely happy with the progress so far and would highly recommend evolvr to anyone.

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, Good Ash said:

One last thing, I have been extremely happy with the progress so far and would highly recommend evolvr to anyone.

Great job, and thank you for the kind words.

[RandallT]

On 12/12/2016 at 7:36 PM, Good Ash said:

I always thought it was a vertical hinging but after my range session I would say this was "lag" and I was just trying to keep the club head further behind me "horizontal".

I'm intrigued by this.

I think our priority pieces are similar from our instructors, and that you're a bit ahead of me on the learning curve, so I hope you don't mind me picking your brain.

Obviously, I got a lot out of the Como video and it has enlightened me a bit more about how the forces on the club are acting as a result of hand path and club position. So with that said:

I'm coming to think of "lag" as just the sensation of the club being in the correct position at A6, to promote the most optimum forces (as discussed in the video) at the last milliseconds to whip the club around and promote squaring it with minimal effort. If we get that right, it likely feels very "laggy"- that's my hunch as I obviously haven't gotten it right too often yet.

Is that a similar thought to what you're expressing here in that quote? 

On 12/12/2016 at 7:36 PM, Good Ash said:

I have been extremely happy with the progress so far and would highly recommend evolvr to anyone.

Agreed. Since May (with a few months break), I've been taking to heart the "stupid monkey" concept and just doing what I'm told- plus trying to research and understand in more depth myself exactly what my priority is. My drills and focus are 95% on just that (gotta have some leeway to explore too). I'm pretty excited about where that is moving my swing. 

Nice work with yours. Good luck with the progress- gives me hope I'll get there soon.

[Good Ash]

23 hours ago, RandallT said:

I'm coming to think of "lag" as just the sensation of the club being in the correct position at A6, to promote the most optimum forces (as discussed in the video) at the last milliseconds to whip the club around and promote squaring it with minimal effort. If we get that right, it likely feels very "laggy"- that's my hunch as I obviously haven't gotten it right too often yet.

Is that a similar thought to what you're expressing here in that quote? 

 

Yes, that is exactly what I was expressing.

When I was playing around with this a little more, another thing I noticed with this new downswing is that my thumbs are pointed behind me (in which case maintaining that angle for longer would create lag).  Originally, i believe I started my downswing and kind of rolled my wrists (more specifically pulled down with my lead arm and my wrist rolled)  so that my thumbs would be pointed up a little more.  From this position holding any angle would just put the club that much further outside.

 

23 hours ago, RandallT said:

Agreed. Since May (with a few months break), I've been taking to heart the "stupid monkey" concept and just doing what I'm told- plus trying to research and understand in more depth myself exactly what my priority is. My drills and focus are 95% on just that (gotta have some leeway to explore too). I'm pretty excited about where that is moving my swing. 

 

I too have spent a lot of time in the stupid monkey thread and the 5S's of practice thread and constantly need to remind my self to step back and work on my priority piece.  I do a lot of research around my piece and end up getting caught up in other things if I am not careful. 

Now if I want to change things up I try to switch over to putting or chipping.

[Good Ash]

I have been working on getting my back swing steeper and think I am finally there, the only problem is everything else seems foreign when I am in this position.  It is like I don't know how much to pivot, how to start a downswing, what to do with my arms, or even how to get my weight forward from this position.  At the range, things were pretty awful, mostly fat,thins and shanks (if I were actually on a course I don't think I would have broken 120). I know that if things don't feel different then nothing is changing, but this is almost like switching hands.  Has anyone else experienced anything like this for something as simple as a different position at the top?  

It also feels like I am overturning during my downswing and coming across at the ball from out to in.  Could this be because my older back swing was more flat and I had more turn with my hips? If so, it might be used to unwinding at a certain rate based on that and that rate is too fast for this back swing?  I wonder, with different back-swings does one needs to change the timing of their downswing sequencing a little just to get everything back to a decent impact position?  If so, then that is probably what I am experiencing here.

On video I look much better at P3, so I will have faith in the process and continue to try to ingrain this back-swing in hopes that that I can get back to hitting a decent golf shot in the near future. 

[iacas]

That's weird considering your last paragraph of the submission to evolvr says:

Quote

As a side note, I was really impressed at the range today. I know I am not "there" by anymeans but the quality of strike, and ease at which I was producing it, has me really excited to keep this progress going.

I haven't looked thoroughly, but make sure you're just working on one thing at a time.