Constant handicap arguments

[iacas]

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

Now anybody can enter a score from practically anywhere. The pro shop at my course entertains the gripes back and forth a little bit, but really has no control over handicaps in the long run.

The head pro isn't supposed to be a part of the handicap committee. (Not saying that players still won't complain to him, but… I think properly done he should just deflect that conversation to the handicap chairman.)

53 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

By definition some might call him a sandbagger but he doesn't play for money and doesn't enter tournaments so it doesn't benefit him, he just doesn't care.    

That doesn't mean he's not a sandbagger. If he keeps a handicap, he should play to the best of his ability. Within reason.

You guys played for money, did you not? If you didn't, I could see how nobody would care, but if you did, I'm sure some of you cared at least a tiny bit.

[newtogolf]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

That doesn't mean he's not a sandbagger. If he keeps a handicap, he should play to the best of his ability. Within reason.

You guys played for money, did you not? If you didn't, I could see how nobody would care, but if you did, I'm sure some of you cared at least a tiny bit.

I agree with you and we did play for money, which he won by 30 strokes.  

Some were annoyed because it was pretty obvious by the way he played he wasn't a 20 handicap, but he wasn't part of the original invites and only filled in for someone who got sick right before the trip.  

I think his buddies were more upset because they'd never seen him play so well and they made it known that he next year (if he played) his handicap would be adjusted if he didn't lower it on his own.   

[iacas]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

I think his buddies were more upset because they'd never seen him play so well and they made it known that he next year (if he played) his handicap would be adjusted if he didn't lower it on his own.   

Sounds like you guys handled it like adults, then.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

My home club requires we submit at least 50% of our score cards that we post for handicap.  The cards must be signed by at least one of your playing partners.    

The Handicap Manual says that the Committee may not require that cards be turned in as a condition of posting scores.  The Committee may "periodically" require that scorecards be turned in to assist it in performing its duties.  Perhaps by only requiring half, they satisfy the "periodically" part of the rule

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

The head pro isn't supposed to be a part of the handicap committee. (Not saying that players still won't complain to him, but… I think properly done he should just deflect that conversation to the handicap chairman.)

Club employees (presumably including the head pro) are permitted to serve on the Handicap Committee, but may not serve as the Handicap Committee Chairman.

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

That doesn't mean he's not a sandbagger. If he keeps a handicap, he should play to the best of his ability. Within reason.

The "within reason" part of this is, I think, one of the weaknesses of the USGA system, which requires essentially all scores to be posted.  It came up in another thread, the difference between playing just for fun, and playing competitively.  Short of going to the CONGU system, where the handicap is based almost entirely on competitive rounds, I'm not sure there's a good solution.  Even with that system, I know some guys who'll essentially "give up" if they're having a bad day in a tournament.   

[newtogolf]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Sounds like you guys handled it like adults, then.

We're all friends and it was $50 per person, so we weren't talking about a huge amount of money.  He did the right thing anyway and paid for the bar bill on the last night.  

I honestly don't think it was about him winning the money or intentionally sandbagging, he just has been through a lot in his life and grinding for low golf scores during his weekly rounds with his friends is a very low priority to him.  

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The "within reason" part of this is, I think, one of the weaknesses of the USGA system, which requires essentially all scores to be posted.  It came up in another thread, the difference between playing just for fun, and playing competitively.  Short of going to the CONGU system, where the handicap is based almost entirely on competitive rounds, I'm not sure there's a good solution.  Even with that system, I know some guys who'll essentially "give up" if they're having a bad day in a tournament.   

This was why I mentioned our MB trip.  I don't think he ever intended to sandbag us, he just doesn't care enough about golf scores and handicap to make an effort every round, but his club requires he submits scores and maintains a handicap so he does.  

I give my best effort every round to score the lowest I can so it's hard to understand the mentality of someone who doesn't care about scores when they could probably lower their handicap by at least 10 strokes with a little more effort.  

[iacas]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Club employees (presumably including the head pro) are permitted to serve on the Handicap Committee, but may not serve as the Handicap Committee Chairman.

Thanks for the adjustment.

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

The "within reason" part of this is, I think, one of the weaknesses of the USGA system, which requires essentially all scores to be posted.  It came up in another thread, the difference between playing just for fun, and playing competitively.  Short of going to the CONGU system, where the handicap is based almost entirely on competitive rounds, I'm not sure there's a good solution.  Even with that system, I know some guys who'll essentially "give up" if they're having a bad day in a tournament.   

If you give up during a bad tournament round the score is unlikely to be part of your best 10 of last 20.

The problem is only when people "don't try" for their 10 best scores, too.

[RH31]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Thanks for the adjustment.

If you give up during a bad tournament round the score is unlikely to be part of your best 10 of last 20.

The problem is only when people "don't try" for their 10 best scores, too.

The "give up" round might not be one of the ten best, but it might kick out one of the ten best, or even the best score. So score #11 is obviously higher and the handicap goes up.

When guys get on good runs and post multiple low scores in a row, handicaps dip, then if they um....falter... and post multiple bad rounds later up go the handicaps.

We have a guy at our club whose handicap fluctuates wildly from 3 to 8 throughout the season.

[iacas]

44 minutes ago, RH31 said:

The "give up" round might not be one of the ten best, but it might kick out one of the ten best, or even the best score. So score #11 is obviously higher and the handicap goes up.

My point was that if their 10 best are 82 and their 10 worst are 92… it's gonna kick out the 21st score whether he shoots 88 or 96.

If it's never going to count as one of their 10 best, it doesn't matter what the actual number is.