They were like magic!

[Secretariat]

"After I sawed down the hosels on my irons and  added some lead tape here and there, they were like magic! I got on the hottest streak of my career." (Johnny Miller)

One of my cherished projects for the new year is recovering a set of MacGregor Tourney Custom irons. As they have extra long hosels and feel too heavy, the first thing it occurred me was also sawing down the hosels, maybe drilling the bores a little deeper...

Speaking in general terms, in which ways would this affect flex, COG and sweetspot location, swingweight, kick/bend point, clubhead feel etc? 

I thought of replacing the original shafts with TT DG Lites R-400 that are 18 grams lighter. Extracting 20 to 30 grams (10 to 15 dime coins) from the hosels would be too much? I guess Miller did it all by pure feeling...

Thx for any suggestions. 

 

 

[paininthenuts]

perhaps you have the wrong clubs

[Secretariat]

why?

[Buckeyebowman]

Unless you are a professional clubmaker, or a professional golfer, it sounds to me like you are about to ruin a vintage set of MacGregor Tourney Custom irons!

[David in FL]

7 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Unless you are a professional clubmaker, or a professional golfer, it sounds to me like you are about to ruin a vintage set of MacGregor Tourney Custom irons!

Even then.....

[Secretariat]

Maybe I should have put the question in other terms: what happens when you shorten the hosel of a golf club? 

[David in FL]

54 minutes ago, Secretariat said:

Maybe I should have put the question in other terms: what happens when you shorten the hosel of a golf club? 

Ha!  Yeah, you probably would have gotten better initial answers!  

Not to worry, I'm sure there are a few club makers out here who can help.  Calling @WUTiger....

[Secretariat]

3 hours ago, David in FL said:

Ha!  Yeah, you probably would have gotten better initial answers!  

Not to worry, I'm sure there are a few club makers out here who can help.  Calling @WUTiger....

Thx DAVID IN FL, suggestions or even references (I have searched the site in vain, but then I'm a newbie), wd be greatly appreciated! 

I can feel the golf club, and I'm sure these irons will play even better [for me] with a bit less weight. "How much?" is the question.

[Piz]

The answer to your question "What happens when you shorten the hosel?" is as follows.  The weight of the head is reduced.  Swing weight is reduced.  The COG moves away from wherever the removed weight was and the shaft, assuming it is the same one, will flex less.  In addition, the hosel bore may require modification; which can be a serious problem if the bores are tapered rather than parallel.                              Miller had to apply lead tape (a LOT of lead tape) to make the clubs playable.  In essence: he removed weight from one area and put it back on elsewhere.  If your goal is to make the clubs lighter; Miller's procedure is unlikely to accomplish that goal.  

[Secretariat]

15 minutes ago, Piz said:

The answer to your question "What happens when you shorten the hosel?" is as follows.  The weight of the head is reduced.  Swing weight is reduced.  The COG moves away from wherever the removed weight was and the shaft, assuming it is the same one, will flex less.  In addition, the hosel bore may require modification; which can be a serious problem if the bores are tapered rather than parallel.                              Miller had to apply lead tape (a LOT of lead tape) to make the clubs playable.  In essence: he removed weight from one area and put it back on elsewhere.  If your goal is to make the clubs lighter; Miller's procedure is unlikely to accomplish that goal.  

Thx for clarifying, Piz.

In an interesting article published in 

http://www.golf.com/equipment/johnny-miller-1973-us-open-golf-equipment-macgregor-wilson

Miller says, "I cut the irons [' hosels] and reground the bottoms [soles] and the top. You didn't have much club left, so they had to have a lot of lead tape to bring them up [to proper swingweight numbers]."

A more cautious approach, I guess, wd be simply installing lighter shafts? 

 

 

 

[Piz]

Yes, and the next question would be...How much lighter can the shaft be?  To answer that you will first have to determine the weight of the shafts that are in there now, and compare those numbers to what is available.  Old as those clubs are; I'd bet they have tapered bores.  Let's assume that is true, for the moment, and see where that leads us.  An R-flex, Dynamic Gold, taper-tipped, iron shaft, weighs 127 grams.  An R-flex, Dynamic Gold SL, weighs 104 grams.  That is certainly enough to make some difference.  Whether it is enough to justify the expenditure, for you, is a question I cannot answer.  PS.  The numbers will be different for parallel bores as the shafts come in raw rather than pre-cut lengths and get progressively lighter (approx. 1.5 grams) for each 1/2 inch reduction in length.  

[MrGolfguy67]

Those are some sweet sticks; good luck working on them.

[Secretariat]

They are forged irons tapered bore, equipped with DG R-300 weighing 127 gr. 

PW weighs 475 gr with grip installed, clubhead only 260 gr. 

Set swingweight averages D 1.0. PW = C 9.7 approximately. 

PW hosel lenght = 3.40". Bottom of bore to ground = 2.0". Hosel depth = 1.40". 

I wonder, how does the math work?

Supposing that R-300, DG SL shafts weighing 104 grams are installed, will the weight subtracted (23gr) correspond to minus 11 points in SW, effectively reducing the SW from D 1.0 to B 9.0 ?!?

Thx for any clues.  

 

[natureboy]

I agree those are sweet-looking irons. Might be a shame to spoil the clean lines.

As far as what Miller did, my speculation would be that by cutting down the hosel and re-weighting with tape he moved the CoG out away from the heel toward the toe a bit and likely lower vertically toward the sole (higher launch). Kind of what modern club design shoots for (at least in longer irons). If he did it through the bag it might not have been an edge with shorter clubs where the goal is often to flight them lower, but may have worked with his goals and individual swing.

[WUTiger]

I played MacGregor MT irons from 1974 to 1994 - with MacGregor-2 stiff shafts. The clubfitter for my follow-on set suggested I just keep the MTs - and the matching driver and woods - for historical purposes. I'm glad I did.

That said, please don't cut up the MacGregor Tourney Custom irons!  This would be like taking a 1975 Corvette Stingray, and swapping in a 230 cu. in. straight six engine from a Chevy Nova so you can get better gas mileage.

Keep those MTCs as is, and compare them to modern clubs in side-by-side tests on the launch monitor.

If you must cut, look for a single club or two (maybe 5i and 7i) from the Tourney Custom line - check Clubfinders - and experiment with them.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 1/5/2017 at 10:17 PM, WUTiger said:

I played MacGregor MT irons from 1974 to 1994 - with MacGregor-2 stiff shafts. The clubfitter for my follow-on set suggested I just keep the MTs - and the matching driver and woods - for historical purposes. I'm glad I did.

That said, please don't cut up the MacGregor Tourney Custom irons!  This would be like taking a 1975 Corvette Stingray, and swapping in a 230 cu. in. straight six engine from a Chevy Nova so you can get better gas mileage.

Keep those MTCs as is, and compare them to modern clubs in side-by-side tests on the launch monitor.

If you must cut, look for a single club or two (maybe 5i and 7i) from the Tourney Custom line - check Clubfinders - and experiment with them.

Thank you, WUTiger! I thought I was right!

There can't be too many of those sets of clubs around any more. They're probably more valuable as golf memorabilia than as current playing clubs, but God knows I'd love to swing them!

There's a course a little way from me that has a set of MacGregor clubs in a walnut and glass presentation case hanging on the wall. The brass placard reads "Presented to Jack Nicklaus on the occasion of his 3rd Masters win."

How this came to be there I have no idea. I asked the guy behind the counter, but he didn't know. He told me the course owner hung them on the wall.

Yes, they're old style clubs. Forged muscle backs with big hosels, stainles steel shafts, leather wrap grips. Persimmon woods with brass inserts. And the whole set just shone like a box full of jewels!

[Secretariat]

On 06/01/2017 at 1:17 AM, WUTiger said:

don't cut up the MacGregor Tourney Custom irons!  

 

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Thank you, WUTiger! I thought I was right!

Thx for the advice.

You make me feel like I'm changing Mona Lisa's hair dress, or turning a Cadillac into a drag racer!

[Buckeyebowman]

That's kind of the thing, Secretariat. If you had other sets of the same kind of clubs to "experiment" on, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But these sound like collector's items!