Club (Accidentally?) Left in a Position to Influence Dropped Ball

[malincanada]

Someone on my club's Facebook page just asked:

"If you measure two club lengths from an unplayable lie, and leave the club on the ground, and the ball touches it when it's dropped, is that a penalty"

I pointed him towards Rule 20-2a which clearly specifies that the ball must be re-dropped, but what I didn't find anywhere in the rule or the decisions was an explicit rule about the following scenario:

I declare an unplayable lie and mark out two club lengths which gets me back to cut grass, but only just a couple of feet outside the deep rough I was in. I 'accidentally' leave the club lying along the edge of the rough. Now, if I drop it and it lands and stays put, all is fine, but if it happens to bounce in the direction of the rough it will probably hit the club and I get to re-drop.

After Rule 20-2a there is a parenthesized sentence saying:

"(Taking action to influence position or movement of ball - see Rule 1-2)"

but with no further clarification as to when that would apply and Rule 1-2 specifically applies to a 'Ball in Play' which the ball isn't yet because it hasn't been correctly dropped.

Is there a decision that I am missing here or is this a bit of a gap? I'm certainly not saying that the person using the club as a 'block' to the rough should escape penalty, I'm just struggling to justify the penalty based on the Rules/Decisions that I'm reading.

Edited February 3, 2017 by malincanada

[iacas]

1-2 things are often weird.

I think that if it's clear he placed the club there to prevent the ball from rolling that way you could penalize immediately.

If he was careless or didn't consider it and the ball hit it, no penalty and he would re-drop but I would make sure he removed the club at that point. If he left the club after it had already been struck once then again I would penalize.

Note that the ball doesn't actually have to strike the club to be a penalty, if the intent is to influence the motion of the ball.

There's a decision about a player breaking off a limb from a branch or something and that's a penalty even if the ball doesn't roll over to that area. 

[Missouri Swede]

21 minutes ago, malincanada said:

After Rule 20-2a there is a parenthesized sentence saying:

"(Taking action to influence position or movement of ball - see Rule 1-2)"

but with no further clarification as to when that would apply and Rule 1-2 specifically applies to a 'Ball in Play' which the ball isn't yet because it hasn't been correctly dropped.

Rule 1-2 says: A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play or (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.

Even if the ball isn't in play, I would suggest that his actions fulfill part (ii).

[malincanada]

3 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

Rule 1-2 says: A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play or (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.

Even if the ball isn't in play, I would suggest that his actions fulfill part (ii).

D'oh! I focused on the 'ball in play' part and completely missed the 'or' meaning that part (ii) doesn't care whether there's a ball in play or not.

Definitely agree that clause (ii) is more than sufficient and definitely agree with you iacas that I would ensure the club was removed before the second drop.

In fact, if I was already near him, having helped search for the ball, I hope I'd be quick enough to say "Let me just move that club for you" before the first drop! :)

[iacas]

1 hour ago, malincanada said:

In fact, if I was already near him, having helped search for the ball, I hope I'd be quick enough to say "Let me just move that club for you" before the first drop! :)

Right.

I'd have a hard time penalizing a guy who didn't do something intentionally, but… he darn well better move it after it was struck once, because NOT moving it would be intentional at that point.

[Buckeyebowman]

Ehhhh, I don't know that I buy the premise, and you have to buy the premise to buy the bit, right?

I've watched enough golf, and seen enough pros mark off drops to see how it's done. They lay out one club length and place a tee. Then they lay out the second club length and place another tee. Then the club goes back in the bag!

Who "accidentally" leaves a club laying in the grass in a drop situation?

Look, I'm not that big of a stickler on the rules, but I think I know "jiggery pokery" when I see it!

[Highdriver]

12 hours ago, malincanada said:

D'oh! I focused on the 'ball in play' part and completely missed the 'or' meaning that part (ii) doesn't care whether there's a ball in play or not.

 

Keep in mind, that a ball is in play after the drop.

No matter, if the drop was executed correctly or not.

20-4

If the player's ball in play has been lifted, it is again in play when dropped or placed.