Toe in bag drill

[TN94z]

So my 15 year old has been taking lessons from a local friend of mine (a pro). Jacob's driver starts out to the left (he's a lefty) but doesn't turn back and in most cases, fades. His teacher told him to focus on getting the toe in the bag with our hitting bag. He told him to go home and practice that a lot.

My question is, would this train of thought not setup a huge timing factor where Jacob would be reliant on knowing when to start manipulating the club face to get the "toe in the bag" at impact??  I was under the impression that if following the 5 simple keys, the momentum of the club during the swing would position the face where it needed to be to hit "average" shots. I do understand there is the club face control, but I'm not sure Jacob is there yet to worry about that portion.

So my question is, do we need to to worry about drilling the toe in the bag or just let the swing take care of itself as long as we follow the transition from key to key? 

I have already seen an issue where the interpretation of this drill has messed Jacob up. It has gotten him to where he immediately rolls his forearms (like before the club even moves back) which opens the face immediately and leaves his club very shallow at A3-A4.

He has a swing thread already. I made this post basically just to ask the question about "toe in the bag." 

[14ledo81]

Have you had him try the "revving the motorcycle" feel?  When I start the ball to far right or its not drawing back, this feel helps a lot.  A little bit goes a long way.

[TN94z]

12 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Have you had him try the "revving the motorcycle" feel?  When I start the ball to far right or its not drawing back, this feel helps a lot.  A little bit goes a long way.

I have not. I have read a few people mention that in various threads, but I haven't read into the correct motions of doing it. I was watching his swing last night on analyzr and noticed some new head movements that we are going to focus on now. I want to get that changed and stop the forearm rotation issue first. Is there a thread on the revving feel? Obviously, I can search for it.

[14ledo81]

I don't think there is a specific thread, but it does seem to get mentioned a lot.

A little bit really does go a long way though.  When my shots start leaking right, and I use that feel a bit, it usually doesn't take long to overcook one and then I can typically drop the feel altogether.

[TN94z]

I think his is more of a weight transfer and hip action issue, because when I see these done semi-correctly in his swing, his ball flight is much better. I think the forearm rotation is a big issue for him now,

But my biggest question, is if the toe drill is credible and worth the effort?

[TN94z]

@14ledo81 I found an explanation from @iacas on the revving that makes perfect sense

Quote

It's twisting the left hand into palmar flexion. If the butt of the grip was a clock you'd twist 12 o'clock to 10 or so. Closes face without adding flip.

A little goes a long way.

 

[14ledo81]

Yes.

That could also make the "toe hit the bag" as well??

[RandallT]

Found this graphic too with a mention of the rev:

For me, cupping my left wrist at and before impact was a definite cause of pushes right.  Like @14ledo81 says, perhaps the toe thing is a feel that gets at the same result?

[TN94z]

8 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Yes.

That could also make the "toe hit the bag" as well??

I just don't think the way he is teaching him to do this will be a consistent way to swing at all. The revving may be the solution here just to give Jacob a different "feel" of what needs to happen.

I believe the interpretation from Jacob's standpoint is causing more issues and I want to get him the result he needs without the "timing" being a big factor to have to rely on. That just doesn't seem like a consistent way to swing, in my opinion.

Edited April 19, 2017 by TN94z

[iacas]

What's the bag and how is the toe getting there?

Forearm rotation?

As you know I generally don't like that.

[TN94z]

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

What's the bag and how is the toe getting there?

Forearm rotation?

As you know I generally don't like that.

An impact bag and yes, forearm rotation. I'm not sure if that's because of a misunderstanding on jacob's part in how to accomplish it or if it was taught that way. I need to sit in on the next lesson because I don't like the forearm rotation either. I just got done explaining the revving of the motorcycle to him and showing him the difference in the forearms between the two methods. 

I will add some video in his swing thread after the next range session.