Questions on Rules During a 2 Man Scramble Tournament

[Nutsmacker]

Hello,

I was curious about a couple of rules during a 2 man scramble tournament.  I watched a pair of two guys slam their tee shots into a woods/creek area.  It was not OB but the balls were instantly lost once there tee shots were struck.  They went down to look for the balls to no avail.  It would have been impossible.  They took their drop in an opening between trees that was about 125 yards to the green.  They were able to get a ball relatively close and sink the putt via their scramble to save par.  I wasn't sure what the ruling was on the drop but it seemed not right.  I was curious if they should have hit their tee shots over again or if they were awarded a drop fairly.  

Another rule that I was curious about on the scramble is that when one partner putts and just misses with only an inch or so left, if they than tap it in before the other guy putts...does that mean that they accepted the first guy's putt?  Normally I wouldn't care about these things as scrambles are typically for fun with a corporate environment but this was a public two day event with different styles of play and cash on the line.  

I am curious to know what the rulings are. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Nutsmacker

[DaveP043]

If both their initial balls were lost, they were required to replay the initial shot, i.e. go back to the tee.  There's no justification for dropping a ball anywhere else, unless there was a special rule for that specific event.  

As for the second case, when a player holes out, the team should be deemed to have holed out, the second guy's putt became moot.  In a casual for-fun event, I wouldn't have any problem with a tap-in like that, but by the letter the law for every scramble I've played in, when a putt is made the hole is over.

Its important to remember that a scramble is not an authorized format under the Rules of Golf, so its hard to apply the actual Rules in scrambles.  A well-run event really should spell out the specific rules as much as possible, to avoid these kinds of potential disputes.

Edited August 7, 2017 by DaveP043

[Elmer]

Scrambles are like the wild west, there are few rules & no one follows them!

That being said the rule on OB during a scramble is what ever the chairperson/organizer declares before teeing off. 
Most scrambles I have played the rules were one of either:
A) hit anywhere from the line of entry (into OB)
B) go to the designated drop zone
C) go back to the Tee box
in all 3 cases a stroke is added for the lost ball.

As far as the second example; while I agree that once the ball is holed out, the hole is over, even I have tapped in a gimme putt while the other golfers are still going for birdie.
I see this happen alot for pace of play. There is no reason to wait for everyone to miss a birdie put so we can set up the ball, retrieve the mark and try and sink our 6" par putt. 

I think if the ball were at a distance greater than the length of a putter I would feel differently.
However scrambles are supposed to be fun and for charity.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Elmer

[Nutsmacker]

  On 8/7/2017 at 6:19 PM, DaveP043 said:

If both their initial balls were lost, they were required to replay the initial shot, i.e. go back to the tee.  There's no justification for dropping a ball anywhere else, unless there was a special rule for that specific event.  

As for the second case, when a player holes out, the team should be deemed to have holed out, the second guy's putt became moot.  In a casual for-fun event, I wouldn't have any problem with a tap-in like that, but by the letter the law for every scramble I've played in, when a putt is made the hole is over.

Its important to remember that a scramble is not an authorized format under the Rules of Golf, so its hard to apply the actual Rules in scrambles.  A well-run event really should spell out the specific rules as much as possible, to avoid these kinds of potential disputes.

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Yea, I mean, I didn't want to call it out when it was happening because I wasn't sure.  Now that I know, I am a little upset.  My partner and I only finished in the middle of the pack and had no real shot at winning but it was a two day event scramble one day, best ball the next.  It was a fairly serious two man event.  That particular hole has a demanding tee shot and that is the challenge.  I hit a 5 iron to keep it in play.  It leaves me with about 170 yards to the green, but its the safe play.  The other two guys go driver/driver off the tee and can't find it...yet get to play their 3rd from 125 with a shot at the green?  Something seemed very wrong with the way that went down.  The two ended up winning the flight and about 3 hundred dollars from the field.  I can't really do anything about it now, but at least I know for the future.  If they had to hit their 3rd from the tee box again, they could have very easily put both of them in the same place and shoot a 10 on that hole...losing the entire event.  I blame myself.  

[Martyn W]

  On 8/7/2017 at 6:03 PM, Nutsmacker said:

 I watched a pair of two guys slam their tee shots into a woods/creek area.

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Was the area marked? If it was (creek is by definition a WH) or even if it wasn't, they are entitled to a drop under R26 IF they had virtual certainty that either of the balls was in the hazard

 

  On 8/7/2017 at 6:03 PM, Nutsmacker said:

when one partner putts and just misses with only an inch or so left, if they than tap it in before the other guy putts...does that mean that they accepted the first guy's putt?

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Typically that would be the case if on the Rulessheet, but you would have a hard time making that argument absent a Rulesheet. Where would you look it up? 

[Nutsmacker]

  On 8/7/2017 at 7:12 PM, Martyn W said:

Was the area marked? If it was (creek is by definition a WH) or even if it wasn't, they are entitled to a drop under R26 IF they had virtual certainty that either of the balls was in the hazard

 

Typically that would be the case if on the Rulessheet, but you would have a hard time making that argument absent a Rulesheet. Where would you look it up? 

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The balls were not able to be found at all.  There is a creek in that area, but they had no idea where the balls were as it is heavily wooded.  The only reason you know there is a creek there to begin with as it runs through the area behind the tee box.  The creek is not really in play at all besides the fact that it is way to the right(of the trees)

[Martyn W]

  On 8/7/2017 at 7:14 PM, Nutsmacker said:

The balls were not able to be found at all.  There is a creek in that area, but they had no idea where the balls were as it is heavily wooded.  The only reason you know there is a creek there to begin with as it runs through the area behind the tee box.  The creek is not really in play at all besides the fact that it is way to the right(of the trees)

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Sounds like 27 to me!

 

[Nutsmacker]

  On 8/7/2017 at 7:23 PM, Martyn W said:

Sounds like 27 to me!

 

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Do you mean 26?  

[Martyn W]

  On 8/7/2017 at 7:27 PM, Nutsmacker said:

Do you mean 26?  

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No, 27   Lost ball(s)

 

[Rulesman]

  On 8/7/2017 at 7:27 PM, Nutsmacker said:

Do you mean 26?  

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26 relates to a ball which is known or virtually certain to be in a water hazard. This is not the case so rule 27 applies.

[Nutsmacker]

  On 8/7/2017 at 8:51 PM, Rulesman said:

26 relates to a ball which is known or virtually certain to be in a water hazard. This is not the case so rule 27 applies.

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Yup, I was just reading the rules.  I failed to protect the field on the rule violation.  Would have changed the outcome for sure.  

[Martyn W]

  On 8/7/2017 at 8:56 PM, Nutsmacker said:

Yup, I was just reading the rules.  I failed to protect the field on the rule violation.  Would have changed the outcome for sure.  

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As long as we're looking up Rules, try Decision 33-7/9

33-7/9

 

Competitor Who Knows Player Has Breached Rules Does Not Inform Player or Committee in Timely Manner

The responsibility for knowing the Rules lies with all players. In stroke play, the player and his marker have an explicit responsibility for the correctness of the player's score card.

There may, however, be exceptional individual cases where, in order to protect the interests of every other player in the competition, it would be reasonable to expect a fellow-competitor or another competitor to bring to light a player's breach of the Rules by notifying the player, his marker or the Committee.

In such exceptional circumstances, it would be appropriate for the Committee to impose a penalty of disqualification under Rule 33-7 on a fellow-competitor or another competitor if it becomes apparent that he has failed to advise the player, his marker or the Committee of a Rules breach with the clear intention of allowing that player to return an incorrect score.

[Nutsmacker]

  On 8/7/2017 at 9:00 PM, Martyn W said:

As long as we're looking up Rules, try Decision 33-7/9

33-7/9

 

Competitor Who Knows Player Has Breached Rules Does Not Inform Player or Committee in Timely Manner

The responsibility for knowing the Rules lies with all players. In stroke play, the player and his marker have an explicit responsibility for the correctness of the player's score card.

There may, however, be exceptional individual cases where, in order to protect the interests of every other player in the competition, it would be reasonable to expect a fellow-competitor or another competitor to bring to light a player's breach of the Rules by notifying the player, his marker or the Committee.

In such exceptional circumstances, it would be appropriate for the Committee to impose a penalty of disqualification under Rule 33-7 on a fellow-competitor or another competitor if it becomes apparent that he has failed to advise the player, his marker or the Committee of a Rules breach with the clear intention of allowing that player to return an incorrect score.

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Yea, that is what I am feeling now.  We didn't come in 2nd or anything.  We were out of it, but now that I know that they gave themselves an unfair advantage....I feel responsible.  I wasn't sure at the time though about the rules.  I would be happy to disqualify myself.  haha.