My Swing (omelette)

[omelette]

I've been Playing Golf for: 2 years
My current handicap index or average score is: 26
My typical ball flight is: straight or fade
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: shank

I've been playing quite regularly for the last 2 years although played a little bit before that.  I've had a few lessons from my club pro.  I've started shanking my irons a lot recently and generally hitting towards the heel with all clubs.  I've struggled with this in the past as well and it keeps creeping back into my game.  I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong so I know what to work on - I've had a lesson with my pro on this recently but he gave me so many things to work on and nothing seems to work!   Below is a video of a shank, I only have a down the line view at the moment.

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Videos: 

 

[RandallT]

Welcome to swing threads! Hope you get a lot out of it. There's a wealth of info here in this thread on instruction: 

But mainly I wanted to point you toward the tips near the top of the first post in the thread on filming your swing.

Ideally, you'll want to align this "down the line" video with your toe line (not the ball). 

I know you realize this, but if you could also post a face on video, that'd be great! Lots of things there that experts can see from that angle: hip sway, head movement, etc 

Anyway, great to see the thread, and sorry to hear your instructor is throwing so many things at you at once.

In the thread above, you'll see some guidance on how to practice (5 S's). Definitely worth a read. The hard part is finding the specific thing to work on and your instructor did you no favors by giving you a litany of things.

Good luck, and hope you can get this sorted out with some good discussion here. 

 

[Jack Watson]

IMO if your pro is overloading your brain tell them so.  If you communicate and it continues find another pro...

Your motion looks nice at this point.  With quality help you have potential.

[Vinsk]

Omelette you're coming outside to in. At 0:02 on your video...watch closely and right as you begin your downswing....your upper body (head and shoulder) moves forward.

Look where your clubhead is coming into impact ....

Edited August 15, 2017 by Vinsk

[downbylaw11]

I should preface this by explaining that I am simply a student of the game and am by no means a professional instructor

 

ok, so your swing is quite over the top, which is causing a severe out to in path on the downswing which is likely why youre making contact on the hosel of the club.  theres not much lower body action at all until it's too late but your upper body does move down a lot as youre pulling the club down with the arms.   

If I were your teacher, I would try to simplify things and try to have you only make a half to 3/4 swing to work on the correct sequence.ill skip through the backswing as I think it's not the biggest factor in your shanks.  however, I would attempt to get you to use your lower body in the downswing by slightly bumping your hips towards the target BEFORE you have made any sort of attempt to bring the club down from the top.  I like to imagine that the golf swing is like a whip, the lower body/hips firing first on the downswing causes the lag of the club, that cracks at the moment of impact.  

your instructure should be 100% working on you with changing your swing path to a more down the line strike, whether it be just focusing on chipping and gradually building up the speed and length of backswing, or placing down some headcovers or balls on both sides of the ball you want to hit so it forces your brain to try to avoid hitting the outside balls.  you can find lots of videos on youtube about fixing an outside in swing using these types of props

 

[omelette]

20 hours ago, RandallT said:

Welcome to swing threads! Hope you get a lot out of it. There's a wealth of info here in this thread on instruction: 

But mainly I wanted to point you toward the tips near the top of the first post in the thread on filming your swing.

Ideally, you'll want to align this "down the line" video with your toe line (not the ball). 

I know you realize this, but if you could also post a face on video, that'd be great! Lots of things there that experts can see from that angle: hip sway, head movement, etc 

Anyway, great to see the thread, and sorry to hear your instructor is throwing so many things at you at once.

In the thread above, you'll see some guidance on how to practice (5 S's). Definitely worth a read. The hard part is finding the specific thing to work on and your instructor did you no favors by giving you a litany of things.

Good luck, and hope you can get this sorted out with some good discussion here. 

 

Thanks for the point on filming the toe line, I'll try and get to the range later this week and get some better videos.  I had a read on the 5 S's too, makes sense but like you said i need to know what specifically to work on!

20 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

IMO if your pro is overloading your brain tell them so.  If you communicate and it continues find another pro...

Your motion looks nice at this point.  With quality help you have potential.

He said there were lots of things that can cause a shank and it can be hard to spot so he was trying lots of the common causes to eliminate things. I didn't want go to another pro and get told the same thing so thought I'd see what people on here thought for now.

19 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Omelette you're coming outside to in. At 0:02 on your video...watch closely and right as you begin your downswing....your upper body (head and shoulder) moves forward.

Look where your clubhead is coming into impact ....

 

What would you recommend focusing on to stop my upper body moving forward?  Should i think about keeping my upper body still on downswing or be thinking about swing path?

19 hours ago, downbylaw11 said:

I should preface this by explaining that I am simply a student of the game and am by no means a professional instructor

 

ok, so your swing is quite over the top, which is causing a severe out to in path on the downswing which is likely why youre making contact on the hosel of the club.  theres not much lower body action at all until it's too late but your upper body does move down a lot as youre pulling the club down with the arms.   

If I were your teacher, I would try to simplify things and try to have you only make a half to 3/4 swing to work on the correct sequence.ill skip through the backswing as I think it's not the biggest factor in your shanks.  however, I would attempt to get you to use your lower body in the downswing by slightly bumping your hips towards the target BEFORE you have made any sort of attempt to bring the club down from the top.  I like to imagine that the golf swing is like a whip, the lower body/hips firing first on the downswing causes the lag of the club, that cracks at the moment of impact.  

your instructure should be 100% working on you with changing your swing path to a more down the line strike, whether it be just focusing on chipping and gradually building up the speed and length of backswing, or placing down some headcovers or balls on both sides of the ball you want to hit so it forces your brain to try to avoid hitting the outside balls.  you can find lots of videos on youtube about fixing an outside in swing using these types of props

 

Thanks for the detailed response.  The hip movement has been mentioned before and i know it's something i need to improve, although wasn't sure if that was contributing to the shank or not.  The headcover thing is one of the things my instructor suggested but when I've tried this i often hit the headcover - do you reckon I should keep persevering with this anyway? I don't mind spending time practicing something, I just want to know I'm practicing the right thing!

[downbylaw11]

yeah, i would keep working with a headcover, though it's obviously a little embarrassing if you hit it and have to retrieve it from the range.  perhaps you can think of another object to use that won't go flying like a headcover, but would also work as a visual aid.  sometimes i just lay tees down on the ground when im doing drills like that, but I too am looking for a better thing to use while at the range that won't have the peanut gallery staring at me when i accidentally hit it. 

 

for the above post about you moving your upper body, after you set up to the ball, I would imagine that your head is glued to an imaginary wall in front of you, and while you swing you want that head to stay stuck to that wall.  if you do that your upper body won't move move.  I would just concentrate on one thing at a time of course though.  when you go to the range, or take swings at home, use it as an opportunity to work on one issue, so hopefully you don't have to have 10 swing thoughts at once.  thinking too much during a golf swing will just ruin you.  ideally you focus on the problem for a week and just hammer out reps at the range, at home, whenever you get a free moment you can take a practice swing, or a slow motion practice swing, focus on keeping your head still, and then hopefully a week later it won't be an issue anymore that youll have to think about, so you can focus on the next thing. 

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, omelette said:

What would you recommend focusing on to stop my upper body moving forward?  Should i think about keeping my upper body still on downswing or be thinking about swing path?

If you get into your set up with your head just touching a wall...then using the 5s concept...practice swinging (you can even do it without a club ) and focus on your head not coming away from or pushing into the wall. Small motion to the left (I'm left handed too!) is ok....but you should not feel your head pushing into the wall or coming off it. There are many 'steady head' videos and tips throughout this site. Your hip turn is another issue to address. But I would definitely try the wall drill and make sure you're not leaning forward to start your backswing. It only takes 1/2" to mess your strike up. 

A great post regarding the hips:

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Vinsk

[iacas]

5 hours ago, omelette said:

He said there were lots of things that can cause a shank and it can be hard to spot so he was trying lots of the common causes to eliminate things. I didn't want go to another pro and get told the same thing so thought I'd see what people on here thought for now.

Uhhh that doesn't sound good to me.

I'll admit to skimming, but that part really stuck out.

I don't guess when I give instruction. I know what the cause is, and I attack the proper fix. I don't believe in throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

I'd call this a warning sign that your instructor may not be a great one.

[omelette]

I went to the driving range yesterday and tried working on keeping my head still and coming from inside on downswing.  I didn't shank too many, although there were a couple later on and i think some were getting near the heel still.  I put a tee just outside the ball and aimed not to hit it.

Here are a couple more videos of my swing

 

 

[downbylaw11]

what im seeing here is a violent chopping motion on the downswing.  you seem to get to the top,  and then pull down your hands towards the great to create lag.  i've seen that before in weird exaggerated drills by long drivers, and most specifically jack hamm, 'boom, pow'  anyways, it's creating a downward momentum, and then youre trying to hit a ball forward, so it's like less of swinging on an arc, and more of a square, which creates all sorts of problems.  

If I were you, once you get to the top, practice holding that position with the arms, but do start the downswing with with legs and hips, and use the turning of the hips to aid the club into moving down before releasing instead of pulling it down with your upper body.  and then I would focus on trying to stay as loose as possible with the arms so you can really extend your arms through the follow thru.  your arms should be fully extended after contact.  in your swing, your arms are completely collapsing after impact but they should be fully extended as if you were almost going to let go of the club and have it fly towards the target

 

here is a video of the first thing on the downswing im talking about.  I used to watch this guy's videos and think he does a good job of breaking down the swing

 

 

[iacas]

I missed your name, but here are two things that deserve some attention:

1. Your hips sway back.

2. Your shoulders are turning back more level than they were at setup (which wasn't too much).

If I were you, I would…

• Read our "setup" topic. It's here.
• Read about the "wall drill" to help you stop swaying. It's here.
• I'd start with those. And while doing the latter, I'd be conscious of that right shoulder pointing too "high" above the ground, and have a bit more of this feeling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUmL6wjtLfs

Hope that helps!

[omelette]

On 22/08/2017 at 4:12 AM, downbylaw11 said:

what im seeing here is a violent chopping motion on the downswing.  you seem to get to the top,  and then pull down your hands towards the great to create lag.  i've seen that before in weird exaggerated drills by long drivers, and most specifically jack hamm, 'boom, pow'  anyways, it's creating a downward momentum, and then youre trying to hit a ball forward, so it's like less of swinging on an arc, and more of a square, which creates all sorts of problems.  

If I were you, once you get to the top, practice holding that position with the arms, but do start the downswing with with legs and hips, and use the turning of the hips to aid the club into moving down before releasing instead of pulling it down with your upper body.  and then I would focus on trying to stay as loose as possible with the arms so you can really extend your arms through the follow thru.  your arms should be fully extended after contact.  in your swing, your arms are completely collapsing after impact but they should be fully extended as if you were almost going to let go of the club and have it fly towards the target

 

here is a video of the first thing on the downswing im talking about.  I used to watch this guy's videos and think he does a good job of breaking down the swing

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. I can see what you mean about the violent motion. I do find it difficult getting my hips to start the downswing but will work on this.

On 22/08/2017 at 4:35 AM, iacas said:

I missed your name, but here are two things that deserve some attention:

1. Your hips sway back.

2. Your shoulders are turning back more level than they were at setup (which wasn't too much).

If I were you, I would…

• Read our "setup" topic. It's here.
• Read about the "wall drill" to help you stop swaying. It's here.
• I'd start with those. And while doing the latter, I'd be conscious of that right shoulder pointing too "high" above the ground, and have a bit more of this feeling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUmL6wjtLfs

Hope that helps!

Thanks for taking a look at my swing. My name's Emily.

I will try that wall drill. I can sometimes feel that I'm swaying and have got a bit better but still clearly prone to doing it.

I've had a read about the setup. I've got quite bad posture and naturally hunch my shoulders so have always thought I should try and make my back straighter in my setup. Would you say I need to hunch a bit more then?

Are these things that you think might be contributing to me shanking?

[RandallT]

3 hours ago, omelette said:

Are these things that you think might be contributing to me shanking?

Yes. I've been around the site long enough to know that what Erik ( @iacas ) proposes will get to the heart of the issue.  He gives you what you need to know and gets you to focus on one or two very specific things to do.

I'd suggest working on EXACTLY what he tells you with rigor like is shown here:

The key is to not move on until you've done enough video to be pretty sure that you've got these first things down. More reading for you:

You want to get each piece you're working on into an "unconscious" form of competence. Basically, do it and practice it until you can do it in your sleep.

But keep posting here in your thread, even if you think you're not done with a piece. You'll get encouragement (or perhaps a kick in the pants to do better). Eventually, you may get a new assignment as perhaps you've gotten these pieces good enough to move on. I've learned one is never totally done with a piece and can refine them as you go along.

Also, feel free to join elsewhere on the site. As you get good instruction tips here (and we look forward to hear about you improving!), we always like to hear what people are thinking on other things related to golf. That also makes people more likely to get involved here in this thread, and not feel like a member is just in it for themselves. At some point, these swing threads dry up when a member is obviously just here on the site for advice for themselves. We're a pretty welcoming place.