weight shift trigger

[adi2008]

i am a higher handicap and just started back golf this year after 15 years.  I am doing solid with my irons, but with my driver my misses are pulls and high push fades.  To me i feel like i am having trouble getting off my back foot on to my right to get a good weight trasfer.  Is there any drills or triggers to start the downswing with the hips so i dont get my hands and shoulders starting the downswing?

[Grizvok]

The concept of "loading the right foot with weight" is actually a huge lie. At address I've found a good mental image to be to have 55% of weight on the left foot and 45% on the right. If anything, more weight actually shifts forward on the back swing making it closer to 60/40 then from there on the down swing you obviously want to be getting a lot of weight forward so those numbers end up being like 90/10.       

All in all you need to be helping your weight transfer by not getting stuck on the back foot in the first place.

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

To me i feel like i am having trouble getting off my back foot on to my right to get a good weight trasfer.  Is there any drills or triggers to start the downswing with the hips so i dont get my hands and shoulders starting the downswing?

If your struggle getting your weight forward then you are probably shifting too much away from the target in the backswing to begin with. I would first see if you are making it tough on yourself to make a centered pivot. Check out these threads below.

 

[adi2008]

3 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

The concept of "loading the right foot with weight" is actually a huge lie. At address I've found a good mental image to be to have 55% of weight on the left foot and 45% on the right. If anything, more weight actually shifts forward on the back swing making it closer to 60/40 then from there on the down swing you obviously want to be getting a lot of weight forward so those numbers end up being like 90/10.       

All in all you need to be helping your weight transfer by not getting stuck on the back foot in the first place.

so on my back swing just keep the legs quiet with a little more weight on my front leg and what starts the hips on the downswing?  Is it a lateral movement first or just try to turn the hips for the follow through.  I have problems starting the hips on the downswing

 

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If your struggle getting your weight forward then you are probably shifting too much away from the target in the backswing to begin with. I would first see if you are making it tough on yourself to make a centered pivot. Check out these threads below.

 

so just keep the legs stable and still and head still and turn upper body?  What then is a good way to start the down swing? 

[saevel25]

21 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

so on my back swing just keep the legs quiet with a little more weight on my front leg and what starts the hips on the downswing?  Is it a lateral movement first or just try to turn the hips for the follow through.  I have problems starting the hips on the downswing

Well, if you are improperly using your lower body in the backswing you might never be able to properly use them on the downswing.

22 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

so just keep the legs stable and still and head still and turn upper body?  What then is a good way to start the down swing? 

By keeping the legs stable you mean keeping flex in the knees, then no. If you mean stable that you let the trail knee lose flex, don't let your hips shift laterally much, then yes.

 

22 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

What then is a good way to start the down swing? 

Depends on the golfer.

How about this. Create a My Swing thread here, https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/. Video tape your swing in the face on view (camera pointing at you, about waist height). Upload it to Youtube and embed the video into your My Swing thread.

I have a feeling you probably need to spend a good amount of time on fixing how your hips work on the backswing versus working on your downswing.

[Grizvok]

23 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

so on my back swing just keep the legs quiet with a little more weight on my front leg and what starts the hips on the downswing?  Is it a lateral movement first or just try to turn the hips for the follow through.  I have problems starting the hips on the downswing

 

so just keep the legs stable and still and head still and turn upper body?  What then is a good way to start the down swing? 

Read the threads and watch the videos in them that @saevel25 linked.

This thread here also helped me: 

This is a bit more abstract in what it means for the average golfer but I think quite a few of the disparities between pro and amateur golfers help highlight what is happening at different positions of the swing with solid numbers and associated pictures that with a bit of analyzing can really help your game.

Another thing that helped me is this thread here:

One thing that I don't think I've seen mentioned with flaring both feet out is that if your back foot is flared with the knee pushed out slightly as @mvmac and @iacas recommend then with correct usage and position of the legs and hips when you lose flex in the rear leg given the way your knee bends you will almost automatically be forcing weight forward and insuring you don't get trapped on the back leg.

[Mr. Desmond]

Question the "lie" of the rear foot and weight - I think TST came out with facts about pressure and how it shifts during the swing with this video. If it's about pressure/weight, then the rear foot gets the majority of the pressure at the top of the backswing before pressure shifts to the front foot. So if you are pressuring more weight into the front foot during the backswing, you are on the incorrect path. Dave and the stats in the video show you. How to get to the front foot? Look at Grant's motion. Erik and Mike can explain it best.

See Grant Waite at 8:20 in a vid that was published in TST a few years ago.

 

[adi2008]

thanks guys, alot of this is confusing for me since i am fairly new, is there some good drills i can work on with backswing and downswing hip moves and weight transfers?

[Grizvok]

8 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

thanks guys, alot of this is confusing for me since i am fairly new, is there some good drills i can work on with backswing and downswing hip moves and weight transfers?

I'm new too and drills can be good but for me the biggest help has been getting a clear picture of what needs to be happening anatomically and taking that to the range for long sessions where I'm essentially videoing almost every swing. During the session I constantly check out the video to see if what it is I'm doing may need changing and appropriately adjust my body during that section of the swing.

[Mr. Desmond]

6 hours ago, adi2008 said:

thanks guys, alot of this is confusing for me since i am fairly new, is there some good drills i can work on with backswing and downswing hip moves and weight transfers?

I'd find a good PGA Professional/Instructor or clinics to start off. Golf swing is tough - Quick sum is that you need efficient movement and too many of us, including me, had and have built up so many inefficiencies or extraneous movements with no instruction/poor instruction that is tough to get rid of once you perform the inefficient movements for so long.

I think the swing can be described as essentially a series of patterns performed in a specific sequence - sequencing is a priority.

Did not answer the question as to weight shift - notice how the right hip is higher than the left at the top of the backswing. I use the ground pressure (pressing feet into ground) and external rotation of the left knee to get to the left side.  If you look at Grant he is externally rotating that front knee - so I try to separate the knees at first in the downswing, and then pressure the front foot into the ground.

Sometimes, you'll run into too much side bend (severe spine angle bend - symptom is head going backwards) on the downswing while trying to get to the front, and you're dead.

Another vid of Grant Waite. Good model.

 

[saevel25]

19 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

thanks guys, alot of this is confusing for me since i am fairly new, is there some good drills i can work on with backswing and downswing hip moves and weight transfers?

One that comes to mind for the backswing.

Buy an alignment stick or a wood dowel (from a hardware store). You want one about 3-4 FT in length. Stick it in the ground at an angle pointing towards you (just so you don't hit it with your club). Then take your stance so your right hip is against that stick. Make backswing and don't let your right hip push that stick. Feel your right hip go more behind you. You might feel like there is a lot more weight on your front foot. You can do this with out a club as well.

[adi2008]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

I'd find a good PGA Professional/Instructor or clinics to start off. Golf swing is tough - Quick sum is that you need efficient movement and too many of us, including me, had and have built up so many inefficiencies or extraneous movements with no instruction/poor instruction that is tough to get rid of once you perform the inefficient movements for so long.

I think the swing can be described as essentially a series of patterns performed in a specific sequence - sequencing is a priority.

Did not answer the question as to weight shift - notice how the right hip is higher than the left at the top of the backswing. I use the ground pressure (pressing feet into ground) and external rotation of the left knee to get to the left side.  If you look at Grant he is externally rotating that front knee - so I try to separate the knees at first in the downswing, and then pressure the front foot into the ground.

Another vid of Grant Waite. Good model.

https://youtu.be/F7KOpkRaVKA

 

So the left knee should flex towards ball on backswing and then rotate out to start down swing?

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

One that comes to mind for the backswing.

Buy an alignment stick or a wood dowel (from a hardware store). You want one about 3-4 FT in length. Stick it in the ground at an angle pointing towards you (just so you don't hit it with your club). Then take your stance so your right hip is against that stick. Make backswing and don't let your right hip push that stick. Feel your right hip go more behind you. You might feel like there is a lot more weight on your front foot. You can do this with out a club as well.

should the right leg stay flexed or straighten?

[Grizvok]

2 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

So the left knee should flex towards ball on backswing and then rotate out to start down swing?

Anatomically, yes I think that is a good description of the left knees movement. It increases flex and moves inward slightly on the back swing. Honestly, the majority of your legs doing the correct thing should be a result of proper usage of the hips.

[Mr. Desmond]

6 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

So the left knee should flex towards ball on backswing and then rotate out to start down swing?

You don't want it to point at the ball during the backswing - I'll say it flexes back.  I don't want to say too much for fear of saying the wrong thing. But yes, on the downswing the left knee will rotate externally but you don't want the right leg to "Cave" or you'll end up in a dead position. Notice Grant Waite in second vid posted above.

The golf swing is tough - in general, it starts from the ground up, and then the backswing starts from the ground up. Notice the connection between arms and body. 

Find a good instructor, which is tough, or they do have online instruction here with Evolver.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

should the right leg stay flexed or straighten?

OK, please go through the links posted for you. This will answer it for you,

 

6 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

So the left knee should flex towards ball on backswing and then rotate out to start down swing?

It does, but it might not be something you need to focus on. It probably will happen automatically when you turn your hips correctly.

[Mr. Desmond]

1 hour ago, Grizvok said:

The concept of "loading the right foot with weight" is actually a huge lie. At address I've found a good mental image to be to have 55% of weight on the left foot and 45% on the right. If anything, more weight actually shifts forward on the back swing making it closer to 60/40 then from there on the down swing you obviously want to be getting a lot of weight forward so those numbers end up being like 90/10.       

All in all you need to be helping your weight transfer by not getting stuck on the back foot in the first place.

Hope the Grant Waite/Pressure video helps clear this up. I know the S&T people tell you that the weight moves forward during the backswing, but the data shows it does not. I have talked with a couple of instructors who once taught S&T, who have talked with Bennett/Plummer but I don't think as of yet, B&P admit what the data and pressure plates show. From talking with another instructor, he says to paraphrase - Sure S&T works with pros for a short duration, and then they plateau and go downhill. Now B&P may have changed their instruction, but here on TST, Erik and Mike have discussed that the pressure moves back and then forward as shown in the Dave Wedzick/Erik vid with Suzanne Petersen and Grant Waite. Good luck.

[adi2008]

Besides setting alignment stick next to me is there any other drills I can do to get correct hip rotation and weight transfer

[Mr. Desmond]

12 minutes ago, adi2008 said:

Besides setting alignment stick next to me is there any other drills I can do to get correct hip rotation and weight transfer

Alignment stick in belt loops to let you see what hips are doing in terms of turning. In general, many golfers do not make a real  or sufficient turn in the backswing, and don't open enough in the downswing. Hint: you must open the hips and chest before the arms come swinging down - sequencing

 

Get an iPad or SmartPhone and get someone to video you on range.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Mr. Desmond