My Swing (Ty_Webb)

[Ty_Webb]

I've been Playing Golf for: 27 years
My current handicap index or average score is: +0.4
My typical ball flight is: straight to a fade
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: block

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Hi all,

Going to start this with my putting. First is a SAM puttlab report from about a year ago that I posted in one of the Swing Thoughts topics:

I was inspired by that thread to work on not accelerating into impact. It's a work in progress, but here is an updated SAM puttlab full report from yesterday:

As you can probably tell, my path is quite a bit left to right. When I'm playing a fair bit, I'm pretty good at getting the face about a degree open, which with the 4 degree left path results in a pretty consistent straight starting point (at least in practice). That said I would quite like to figure out how to straighten up my path a little bit. 

On my long game, my issue right now is trying to get my arms to move faster. They get stuck behind my pivot and I can get stuck and it causes a big block. I have had some pretty bad chipping woes at times, although right now I have a thought which is really helping. That thought is to get my left arm to move off my chest in the downswing and through impact. So basically the same thing as I want to do in my full swing. I suspect that there may be something similar going on in my putting as well, where my left arm gets a little bit across my chest and then doesn't come back off it, so as my body turns, it pulls the club to the left. 

I will post some videos when I have the chance to film them.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

As you can probably tell, my path is quite a bit left to right. When I'm playing a fair bit, I'm pretty good at getting the face about a degree open, which with the 4 degree left path results in a pretty consistent straight starting point (at least in practice). That said I would quite like to figure out how to straighten up my path a little bit. 

Could be as simple as a setup issue - where are your shoulders aligned, what are your forearms like (from DTL), etc.

Or it could be a realization that you can't really putt straight back, straight through and to allow a little bit of an arc on the way back.

I thought you had said you were having trouble hitting putts far enough with what felt like a big enough stroke? Got a video? Same angles as the other filming: FO is perpendicular, DL on the toe line, both hands height.

[Ty_Webb]

Just now, iacas said:

Could be as simple as a setup issue - where are your shoulders aligned, what are your forearms like (from DTL), etc.

Or it could be a realization that you can't really putt straight back, straight through and to allow a little bit of an arc on the way back.

I use a claw grip because I bought Dave Pelz's book and tried to putt straight back straight through and messed up my stroked completely. So much arm manipulation to make that happen, so I let my arms rotate now (Stan Utley's book gave me the blueprint for that a while ago - I need to reread it). I'm certainly trying to arc on the way back, though I see that isn't quite how it's working out.

I wonder what the claw grip is going to do to my apparent alignments across the forearms. I'll try to get the video this evening (have to talk my wife into filming it for me - may be easier said than done). 

Thank you for the reply!

[iacas]

If your right elbow is out away from you, that could be a big part of the problem.

[Ty_Webb]

Okay here we go with video. the slow motion ones are pretty dark. I made them as bright as I could, but not a lot more I can do.

10 foot putt at normal speed: 

10 foot putt slow motion:

25 foot putt normal speed:

25 foot putt slow motion:

Down the line shot - I could only do this from 3 feet in the space, but I hit it like a 10 foot putt

 

[iacas]

Your head moves around a bit, and I don't love the front wrist extension.

Otherwise, I'd keep working with the instructor and the SAM. Fixing the path is important, too.

[Ty_Webb]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your head moves around a bit, and I don't love the front wrist extension.

Otherwise, I'd keep working with the instructor and the SAM. Fixing the path is important, too.

No instructor. I’m on my own with the putting. What do you mean by front wrist extension?

[billchao]

17 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

No instructor. I’m on my own with the putting. What do you mean by front wrist extension?

I'm not going to comment on your technique, but these are the wrist motions:

Front wrist extension would be the way you have your left wrist cupped through the entire stroke.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

Front wrist extension would be the way you have your left wrist cupped through the entire stroke.

More about how it extends more through the hit and follow through.

[billchao]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

More about how it extends more through the hit and follow through.

Didn't spot that. Just another of the many reasons I'm not an instructor.

[Ty_Webb]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

More about how it extends more through the hit and follow through.

Do you think that fixing that would also help with the path? I imagine that increasing the bend in my left wrist would narrow the radius, which would bring the club up and in faster, pulling the path to the left. If I work on keeping my left wrist stable, it feels like (from my 30 seconds of practice strokes without a club) that would move my path out to the right a little bit. Does that sound right?

Thank you!

12 hours ago, billchao said:

I'm not going to comment on your technique, but these are the wrist motions:

Front wrist extension would be the way you have your left wrist cupped through the entire stroke.

Awesome thank you!

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Do you think that fixing that would also help with the path?

No. The backswing path isn't good, either. It may help but there are other things for the path.

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

No. The backswing path isn't good, either. It may help but there are other things for the path.

Could you expand on that? Anything that would be good for the path? I have a Mi putting template, which when I use that with the SAM, my scores go up. I know that I go out on the way back and then cut across it. Even if I feel like I'm bringing it back to my right toe and then pushing way out, I can't get the numbers to be in to out. There must be something that makes it happen, but I have no idea what that is.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Could you expand on that? Anything that would be good for the path? I have a Mi putting template, which when I use that with the SAM, my scores go up. I know that I go out on the way back and then cut across it. Even if I feel like I'm bringing it back to my right toe and then pushing way out, I can't get the numbers to be in to out. There must be something that makes it happen, but I have no idea what that is.

There's not much to expand upon.

The path has to be better. The wrist extension mostly happens at or after impact. The path is set into motion well before then.

[Ty_Webb]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

There's not much to expand upon.

The path has to be better. The wrist extension mostly happens at or after impact. The path is set into motion well before then.

Okay - do you have any thoughts on how best to fix the path? Is it just a matter of practicing with something that will force my path to be correct or is it likely a setup issue or something else?

[Ty_Webb]

Wow - 3042 days old thread. Oh well. Full swing time and some history. 

I started playing in April 1990, so am now up to nearly 36 years playing. My handicap now is the same as it was 9 years ago when I started this thread. I took lessons when I was a kid with the pro at my club. He was a very good player, Scottish guy who was quite to the point. For example, one day I was slicing my driver. He watched me for a little bit and then grabbed the club off me, told me to move, teed one up and pounded it arrow straight, handed me back the club and said "well it's obviously not the club's fault". I worked with him for a couple of years, then he got the head pro job at a club in another county, so had to find a new one. My first handicap was summer of 1990 and was a 35. Then year-end handicaps were 1990 - 25, 1991 - 14,

Started working with a guy at a local driving range who was at the time pretty cutting edge with a camcorder and video and so on. I got better. He coached the county team once a week and was quite a technical guy, which fits my way of thinking. Year-end handicaps continued at 1992 - 7, 1993 - 5, 1994 - 6, 1995 - 5, ran into my first coach at an event he was playing in. He asked me what my handicap was. I said 5. He said "it's too high. Get it down". He was right too. 1996 - 4, 1997 - 2. 1998 summer I was 1, then started working full time and taking my mind off golf a bit actually helped and I got to scratch in 2000. My best on the old UK system was +0.5, which I got to in late summer 2001. Then the wheels fell off. My new coach had moved on too and I was without help. Really struggled with my driving. Got a little yippy thing going on and I managed to go from +0.5 to 1.9 in 27 rounds, which means missing the buffer zone 24 times in 27 rounds. Languished around 2 or 3 for a good long while and didn't have access to a coach I trusted. 

Moved to the US (NYC) in 2007. Didn't really play much for a year or so, then figured out the Bethpage grind and played more. I got a little better again and then I saw a video of my swing while I was down in Florida I think from down the line. I saw myself take it back in what looked like a reasonable fashion (to my untrained eye) and then I started down by opening my shoulders up, which pitched my club out and steep and made me cut across it. That looked like a pretty clear explanation as to why I was struggling with a slice. So I tried a few things and one of them that I tried was taking it back inside. I'd take it back inside and across the line and then when I opened up my shoulders from the top, it was shifting the club back to in line so my swing path got to more like maybe 2-3 degrees left rather than 12-15 or so (I'm estimating, but it must have been a lot). Did that for 5-6 years or so and then finally settled on a long term instructor with whom I am still working. He has had me working on several things - a lot of them to do with my lower half and I have got a lot better. My handicap is about the same, but I play less frequently and my scores are almost all tournament scores rather than a lot of going out with my friends, no pressure stuff. 

Anyway, one of the things that we have also worked on quite a lot is not getting myself inside and then across the line at the top. We've worked on that at various times and while I manage to get the lower half stuff changed, I struggle to fix the arms motion. I think, at least in part, the issue is that I don't understand what I need to do to stop myself from opening up the shoulders and pitching the club out. If they club is behind me then pitching it out brings it back roughly to where it should be. I academically am aware that it's not ideal, but I don't know what I should be doing at that point and I think subconsciously I'm fighting moving in the right way on the backswing because I'm worried about what will happen with my downswing. 

Then recently I got a skillest lesson with @iacas and he told me I need to lift my trail arm on the way back. I've been actually lowering it, so it's bringing my right humerus down towards my shirt seam rather than up and away from it. He actually just released a video about this exact thing this morning here:

So this is what I'm working on. I had a qualifying thing this weekend just past so I didn't want to do too much work on this right before that, but now have a month or so until I have to hit a ball in anger, so I'm going to work on this properly. Below is a latest video of me, both DTL and FO. This is after I got the initial lesson from Erik to see if I am on the right track. Still have a ways to go, but you can see on the DTL portion the way that the club is pitching outwards about half way down between P5 and P6. That's what worries me and I think is the mental block that I have to doing the raising the arms move properly. I can make a practice swing in slow motion with the arms raising (will post video of me attempting this soon), but if I look down at the ball when I make that practice swing and then swing down, I can see the very out to in swing path. 

Will document progress in here. Played 62 holes in about 50 hours over the past three days in wind, rain, and mud, so I'm quite broken. Going to take a day or two to recover and then work on the backswing more.