Is it my fault?

[GITim51]

I’m open to believing my issue may be self inflicted, and in fact I’ll make that statement myself... in most cases.  For this though, I’m only looking to find a solution, and plead my case with the golf jury.  My issue started at the beginning of this season, which no surprise to anyone when they’d see me play was only the start of my 3rd year of enjoying this game.  With the blessing of my wife allowing me to spend the money, I embarked on an all out journey to outfit myself with the correct size, style, stiffness, and so on of clubs to allow myself the opportunity to at least keep up with the individuals around me.  Basically, not look completely juvenile when walking to the tee, and more importantly when walking away.  

At the time the clubs I had were a set of Cobras I bought from a used sporting equipment store.  I’m a little bigger of a guy as I’ve gained a little weight since leaving the Army, but I’ve always been considered athletic, even now.  I push myself to learn by experience, and eventually I tend to excel in the things I commit to (I promise I’m modest, just trying to give a description of who I am). 

With that said I spoke to several friends that are avid players (several times a week), and they directed me to a local shop that is considered highly knowledgeable in the area.  I was very candid and open with my lack of talent when starting my fitting.  To their credit they patiently spent several hours with me both during my driver and irons fittings.  I was very grateful of that.  And more grateful that they said I wasn’t as bad as I feel I am.  Anyway, I ended up with Callaway XR os irons, and Taylor Made M1 Driver/3 wood.  I was excited to hit the driving range.  

The irons are amazing, and significantly improved my game from the older Cobras I had.  Having irons that fit makes the game even more enjoyable to play for me.  The new 2017 M1 Driver/3 wood was very confidence boosting, and incredibly comfortable.  Until, I broke my first shaft.  A little more background on what I learned while getting fitted...

My average driver swing speed is 113.4 mph.  I have a naturally smooth and lengthy backswing and smooth transition.  I have a VERY steep swing angle on my approach to the ball which I struggle greatly with, and have been unsuccessful at correcting.  When I hit the ball correctly on the sweet spot, I typically carry 290-300 and get an overall of 325-340 with a very lite fade.  That’s when I hit it perfect, maybe one in every twenty.  When I don’t hit it perfect you can easily take 40-80 yards off those numbers.  Back to the break...

They fitted me with a Project X Hzrdus Xtra Stiff shaft.  I was at the range for the first time, and I was hitting my driver fantastic.  There were a few guys that stopped and turned to watch me hit my next couple drives.  I felt like I had made the best decision I’d ever made, and that it was well worth the money.  Out of nowhere on my 8th or 9th ball I developed a severe snap hook that would only go about 15 ft off the ground then all of a sudden snap left and straight to the ground.  I did this probably 10 times in a row, and put the club away.  I chalked it up to being tired from hitting all my irons before my 3 wood, then to my driver.  Plus I was swinging as close to 100% as I could with the others watching me because I felt cool ha (honest admission).  

I went to play for the first time of the year a few days later. The first hole I had the same low snap hook to the ground that I had at the range.  The seconded hole, I pulled the cover off my $500 driver and the head stayed in the cover while I held my shaft with the other hand.  Confidence gone... let’s just say the whole standing there with my shaft in my hand wasn’t just literal, I was mentally conquered.  My M1 head still looked brand new, there was not a single identifier of a miss hit, or that I had skimmed the surface of the tee box (note the driving range was grass also).  

The shop contacted Taylor Made and then replaced my shaft with the same make/model I originally had, and with no complaint at all.  They had me hit some balls on the simulator to ensure it was setup correctly.  The last couple balls, the simulator was registering my drives as a hook.  I didn’t think much of it because I will do that every once in a while when I grip to tight with my left hand (right handed).  

A few days later I went to show my father my new clubs, and upon looking at the driver I found three clear fractures in the shaft rising out of the hosel.  The longest being about 8 inches.  Note that I had only hit my driver with this new shaft in the simulator at the shop.  The shop then contacted Taylor Made again and found out that they believe both shafts were from the same defective batch.  They could not get a shaft for a few weeks so this time the shop put me into a Kuro Kage Silver TiNi with the reinforced tip.  

I’ve swung this shaft for the majority of the season with great results.  I went out for the last time of the year (Ohio), last Friday.  The second time I used my driver I noticed the same snap hook.  Upon close inspection I found a fracture, possible two I believe.  Now I’m sitting with another broken shaft, and close to $800 in my two Taylor Made clubs.  I have had a few  severe miss hits, but have not took any divets out of the tee box.  I’m to the point where I feel embarrassed to take the club back to the shop, but have no confidence in either my driver or 3 wood.  I’ll note that the 3 wood has had no issues, and had been the same Project X shaft that was originally in my driver.  I will also admit to legit divets take with my 3 wood trying to pick balls up off the deck.  

I feel that even if I am not the best golfer or most consistent striker, that the manufacturer should still take the responsibility for these failures.  I WILL SAY, that the manufacturer has always backed their warranty.  I assume they will do the same here since I have no reason to believe they won’t, but at this point I have no confidence in the clubs and would rather just get my money back.  

I respect this game the most for the integrity it takes to play it honestly, and the tradition that preceded it.  That is why I am asking what you would do in this situation.  What does other members of the golf community think at this point.  Am I doing something wrong, and should I own the fact that I’m not an experience golfer playing with these expensive clubs?  Should I not expect that clubs with this price tag should be able to handle the swing of anyone that can afford them?  Or, should I just get what I want and get my money back because I’m the customer.  Thanks for reading, and your opinion.  

[mcanadiens]

I've broke a few shafts, but then I'm also a hacker that uses really old clubs, so I take the hit on them when I break one.

Based on what you related, it sound like you put a heck of a lot more force than I could hope to. As a newer golfer, you probably fat your share. The shots I've snapped a shaft on have been fats.

I'd say that you should ask and get what you can. Lord knows you paid enough for them, especially if you paid top dollar (which I generally don't). Alternatively, buy cheaper clubs until you get the feel for it.

[Lihu]

33 minutes ago, GITim51 said:

I’m open to believing my issue may be self inflicted, and in fact I’ll make that statement myself... in most cases.  For this though, I’m only looking to find a solution, and plead my case with the golf jury.  My issue started at the beginning of this season, which no surprise to anyone when they’d see me play was only the start of my 3rd year of enjoying this game.  With the blessing of my wife allowing me to spend the money, I embarked on an all out journey to outfit myself with the correct size, style, stiffness, and so on of clubs to allow myself the opportunity to at least keep up with the individuals around me.  Basically, not look completely juvenile when walking to the tee, and more importantly when walking away.  

At the time the clubs I had were a set of Cobras I bought from a used sporting equipment store.  I’m a little bigger of a guy as I’ve gained a little weight since leaving the Army, but I’ve always been considered athletic, even now.  I push myself to learn by experience, and eventually I tend to excel in the things I commit to (I promise I’m modest, just trying to give a description of who I am). 

With that said I spoke to several friends that are avid players (several times a week), and they directed me to a local shop that is considered highly knowledgeable in the area.  I was very candid and open with my lack of talent when starting my fitting.  To their credit they patiently spent several hours with me both during my driver and irons fittings.  I was very grateful of that.  And more grateful that they said I wasn’t as bad as I feel I am.  Anyway, I ended up with Callaway XR os irons, and Taylor Made M1 Driver/3 wood.  I was excited to hit the driving range.  

The irons are amazing, and significantly improved my game from the older Cobras I had.  Having irons that fit makes the game even more enjoyable to play for me.  The new 2017 M1 Driver/3 wood was very confidence boosting, and incredibly comfortable.  Until, I broke my first shaft.  A little more background on what I learned while getting fitted...

My average driver swing speed is 113.4 mph.  I have a naturally smooth and lengthy backswing and smooth transition.  I have a VERY steep swing angle on my approach to the ball which I struggle greatly with, and have been unsuccessful at correcting.  When I hit the ball correctly on the sweet spot, I typically carry 290-300 and get an overall of 325-340 with a very lite fade.  That’s when I hit it perfect, maybe one in every twenty.  When I don’t hit it perfect you can easily take 40-80 yards off those numbers.  Back to the break...

They fitted me with a Project X Hzrdus Xtra Stiff shaft.  I was at the range for the first time, and I was hitting my driver fantastic.  There were a few guys that stopped and turned to watch me hit my next couple drives.  I felt like I had made the best decision I’d ever made, and that it was well worth the money.  Out of nowhere on my 8th or 9th ball I developed a severe snap hook that would only go about 15 ft off the ground then all of a sudden snap left and straight to the ground.  I did this probably 10 times in a row, and put the club away.  I chalked it up to being tired from hitting all my irons before my 3 wood, then to my driver.  Plus I was swinging as close to 100% as I could with the others watching me because I felt cool ha (honest admission).  

I went to play for the first time of the year a few days later. The first hole I had the same low snap hook to the ground that I had at the range.  The seconded hole, I pulled the cover off my $500 driver and the head stayed in the cover while I held my shaft with the other hand.  Confidence gone... let’s just say the whole standing there with my shaft in my hand wasn’t just literal, I was mentally conquered.  My M1 head still looked brand new, there was not a single identifier of a miss hit, or that I had skimmed the surface of the tee box (note the driving range was grass also).  

The shop contacted Taylor Made and then replaced my shaft with the same make/model I originally had, and with no complaint at all.  They had me hit some balls on the simulator to ensure it was setup correctly.  The last couple balls, the simulator was registering my drives as a hook.  I didn’t think much of it because I will do that every once in a while when I grip to tight with my left hand (right handed).  

A few days later I went to show my father my new clubs, and upon looking at the driver I found three clear fractures in the shaft rising out of the hosel.  The longest being about 8 inches.  Note that I had only hit my driver with this new shaft in the simulator at the shop.  The shop then contacted Taylor Made again and found out that they believe both shafts were from the same defective batch.  They could not get a shaft for a few weeks so this time the shop put me into a Kuro Kage Silver TiNi with the reinforced tip.  

I’ve swung this shaft for the majority of the season with great results.  I went out for the last time of the year (Ohio), last Friday.  The second time I used my driver I noticed the same snap hook.  Upon close inspection I found a fracture, possible two I believe.  Now I’m sitting with another broken shaft, and close to $800 in my two Taylor Made clubs.  I have had a few  severe miss hits, but have not took any divets out of the tee box.  I’m to the point where I feel embarrassed to take the club back to the shop, but have no confidence in either my driver or 3 wood.  I’ll note that the 3 wood has had no issues, and had been the same Project X shaft that was originally in my driver.  I will also admit to legit divets take with my 3 wood trying to pick balls up off the deck.  

I feel that even if I am not the best golfer or most consistent striker, that the manufacturer should still take the responsibility for these failures.  I WILL SAY, that the manufacturer has always backed their warranty.  I assume they will do the same here since I have no reason to believe they won’t, but at this point I have no confidence in the clubs and would rather just get my money back.  

I respect this game the most for the integrity it takes to play it honestly, and the tradition that preceded it.  That is why I am asking what you would do in this situation.  What does other members of the golf community think at this point.  Am I doing something wrong, and should I own the fact that I’m not an experience golfer playing with these expensive clubs?  Should I not expect that clubs with this price tag should be able to handle the swing of anyone that can afford them?  Or, should I just get what I want and get my money back because I’m the customer.  Thanks for reading, and your opinion.  

TM is as good as anyone in replacing shafts, and I've had my share of them break when I was starting out. I went to steel shafts for a while, and now am back to a stock shaft. I only had an adhesive separation in my current driver, but the second shaft is glued tight.

The type of breakage you describe is pretty common in drivers especially for higher speed swinging beginners.

Not your fault, other than being a beginner

Edited December 4, 2017 by Lihu
Stupid spellcheker keeps changing 'now' to 'not'

[WUTiger]

Any chance you have above-average hand action in your drives?

If you're hitting the low hooks, you might consider a lower torque shaft.

My driver swingspeed is only about 87 MPH. But in the past, I've had trouble with super game inprovement drivers and hitting low hooks, even with a 10.5* loft head. The specs on the shaft often showed torque of 5.0+. The launch monitor showed I had impact loft of about 8*, from the clubface closing down.

Moving up to a heavier shaft with 3.8 torque or less, I really straightened things out.

Another factor might be the lie angle of your M1. The specs say the angle can range from 56 - 60 degrees, so check to make sure your lie angle isn't too upright. This could lead to left misses.

Finally, make sure on drives you hit through the ball, not to the ball. Poor followthrough can also contribute to low shots.

Capturing your swing on video would be a good complement to launch monitor data.

[Typhoon92]

Maybe a lesson or 2 will help with that steep angle of attack.  Also your clubface is probably closed at the top ( closed is when the face points to the sky at the top) which will give you low snap hooks.

I have the same swing apeed, smooth transition and too long of a backswing as u do and I've never broken a shaft in my M1 or M2 driver heads.  My angle of attack is +3.  I'd you are steep, maybe you have a negative angle of attack...club hitting the ground...that could do it.  All just a guess though since we never saw u swing.  I'd go to a PGA professional and talk with him.

[1badbadger]

I have managed 2 retail golf shops and have extensive knowledge in repairs and club building, so I might be able to give some insight on this.

First, I'll quickly explain why your driver shafts have been cracking near the hosel.  Back in the day (15-20 yrs ago) this was rarely an issue because clubheads were smaller.  But as technology advanced and driver heads grew in size, the number of broken driver shafts increased.  Why?  Because now there is so much more mass at the end of the shaft, and the toe is so much further away from the shaft, mishits create a lot more torque on the shafts than they used to.  

If a shot is hit out on the toe with the club on the left, especially at high swing speeds, it basically twists the clubhead around the shaft.  If a shot is hit in the heel, the heel of the club stops while the toe keeps moving which again twists the head, just in the opposite direction.  This is why you haven't had any issues with your 3-wood...the head is much smaller so a mishit doesn't create as much torque.

To be fair, this has nothing to do with TaylorMade.  This can happen with any brand of club.  And technically the club did not break...the shaft did.  TaylorMade didn't make those shafts, they were purchased from the shaft manufacturers.  But to be fair to them, it's not their fault either.  The issues you've had occurred with more than one brand, so the chances that they are all from a defective batch are slim.

These shafts most likely cracked due to one or more extreme mishits.  Does this mean it's your fault?  No, I'm not saying that.  It's just something that happens due to the size of modern clubheads.   Don't be embarrassed to take it back to the shop and talk to them about a warranty replacement again.  I repaired golf clubs for a living full-time, and people would come in all sheepish and embarrassed  because their club broke, but it's not unusual at all.  As long as they determine the club was not abused or broken in anger, it should be covered under warranty (during the time-frame specified by the manufacturer).  The guys in the golf store don't care.  It's no skin off their nose. That's what they are there for...not just to sell clubs, but to help customers after the sale too. 

I know you don't have confidence in your woods right now, but remember, it's not a TaylorMade issue, and spending $400-500 on a driver doesn't mean it's more durable than a $250 driver.  The head didn't break.  By the same token, a $300 shaft can break just as easy as a $60 shaft if they are strained past their limits.  When you get your driver situation squared away, put a piece of impact tape on the face and see where the ball is hitting.  If it's way out on the toe or on the heel, some swing adjustment for more center face hits might be needed.

[iacas]

20 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

First, I'll quickly explain why your driver shafts have been cracking near the hosel.  Back in the day (15-20 yrs ago) this was rarely an issue because clubheads were smaller.  But as technology advanced and driver heads grew in size, the number of broken driver shafts increased.  Why?  Because now there is so much more mass at the end of the shaft, and the toe is so much further away from the shaft, mishits create a lot more torque on the shafts than they used to.  

The mass is about the same (or even less these days), which actually leads to MORE twisting (less mass). So the second point is completely valid.

Also, some shafts crack because people mishit the ball so badly… they hit it on the hosel and the vibrations sent up to the shaft are tremendous. Combined with the twisting you still get… crack crack crack.