Ball comes to rest under boards defining water hazard

[scriper23]

Good morning! 

So this weekend, we had a player in our group have his drive come to rest under wood planks, defining the course and water hazard in front of green.  We didn't give him the "obstruction" relief, as the ball would have gone in the water if the board wasn't there and also assumed the wood "defined the make-up of the course."  Is this accurate?  Or does he get free relief from immovable obstruction.  Nothing noted on the course's local rules. 

The red circle on the pic, shows the location.  It's hard to see but both sides of the water hazard are lined with wood planks.  

Thanks for your help!

[scriper23]

Sorry...posted in the wrong forum.  Re-posted in Rules for Golf.  Now to try to figure out how to delete this one.

[iacas]

This is in the Rules of Golf thread.

You must have accidentally deleted your image, too. Feel free to attach that and I'll merge some posts.

The boards likely were inside the hazard, and as such, not immovable obstructions.

24-2b says:

Quote

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction as follows:

and the Note says:

Quote

Note 1: If a ball is in a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard), the player may not take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction. The player must play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 26-1.

So… No relief, almost surely.

[scriper23]

Thanks for the quick help.  The boards are technically running horizontal on the edge of fairway, before hazard.  Kind of like the Sawgrass running boards.  I'll attach pic again.  

[iacas]

Yes, I know. They're like bulkheads. They're almost always marked as being inside the hazard.

Like this:

[scriper23]

Now that I think about it, I bet there is a red line marking the hazard.  Thank you!

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, scriper23 said:

Now that I think about it, I bet there is a red line marking the hazard.  Thank you!

Or it's defined on the card, or there are stakes.

Or the committee has failed to properly mark the course.

[scriper23]

Bingo!

[Fourputt]

My home course has all obstructions that are associated with a hazard marked or indicated as being part of the hazard including any bridges across the hazard.  This is not universal, but it's fairly common and makes figuring out what to do a lot easier. 

On my home course there are a few short bridges across an 8 foot wide irrigation ditch which used to be excluded from the hazard, and it created too many questions as to procedure, and whether the ball was in or out of the hazard when it didn't completely rest on the obstruction, so they changed that about 10 years ago.  Now the red  or yellow lines enclose the bridges and all such confusion has been eliminated.

[scriper23]

I'm playing there again, this Sunday. I'm going to see if there are red/yellow markings and if not see what their local rule is.  Possibly suggest to do the same.  A stroke or two can make all the difference in the world, especially in a money round.

 

Thanks for all the help!  

[Rulesman]

3 hours ago, Fourputt said:

My home course has all obstructions that are associated with a hazard marked or indicated as being part of the hazard including any bridges across the hazard.  This is not universal, but it's fairly common and makes figuring out what to do a lot easier. 

On my home course there are a few short bridges across an 8 foot wide irrigation ditch which used to be excluded from the hazard, and it created too many questions as to procedure, and whether the ball was in or out of the hazard when it didn't completely rest on the obstruction, so they changed that about 10 years ago.  Now the red  or yellow lines enclose the bridges and all such confusion has been eliminated.

If a 'bridge' is over an open water course, then by definition, the part that is within the vertical margins is in the WH. Unless marked/declared by the committee, the ends (as it were) are not.

If however the water runs through a closed conduit (ie a tube), then the ground or any obstruction above is by definition, not in a WH as the water is not in an 'open water course'.  

I hope you can make sense of this. The latter is at the bottom of the diagram. The former at the top. Of course, if it saves confusion, anything that looks like a bridge could/should be included in the margin of the WH 

 

Alternative marking of a (real) bridge over an open water course

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Rulesman

[Rulesman]

1) Bridge

2) Non bridge

 

 

[Fourputt]

Our course used to be marked like your top photo, with a wooden bridge excluded from the hazard (our bridges do not extend as far from the hazard as that one in the photo), and the stakes nearly touching the bridge.  (One issue was that this is a public course, and the stakes occasionally get moved because they can interfere with a shot from outside of the hazard, so their location can vary slightly from one round to the next)  This was before we started painting lines, so there was often a question of whether or not the ball that was touching the bridge was actually in the hazard.  There were so many conflicting rulings from within different groups in men's club tournaments that it caused some bad feelings because of the seeming inconsistency.  As a result, the rules committee, with the blessing of the course, changed the marking to include the obstructions completely within the hazard, thus eliminating any question as to the correct procedure. 

This was back before cell phone cameras - no way to take a photo of the lie - so even playing under 3-3 was no guarantee of a favorable ruling, since someone from the committee would have to have been there and see the actual lie to make any sort of proper ruling.  The lines are drawn to fully include the entire bridge, and everyone knows that if the ball is inside the line, it's in the hazard, and there is no worry about trying to get a sight line between 2 stakes.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Fourputt