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Slim_Pivot

My Swing (Slim_Pivot)

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I've been Playing Golf for: 20 years
My current handicap index or average score is: 79
My typical ball flight is: 3 yard fade
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: big block

I used to be better with a worse swing, I committed to a big swing change 7 months ago and practice slow motion, in the mirror, and 3 days per week at the range. I play 6 days every 2 weeks.  The pro wants me to let it fall into the slot by my arms “falling down” and i keep trying but cannot get the club to bisect my lower arm. I am also having a very hard time compressing the ball and delofting the face like I used to. (I used to pull the handle) I am about to give up; so any thoughts would be helpful

 

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I would think if you didn't raise your arms up so high in the backswing, it wouldn't be as hard to bring them down in the downswing.

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Well…

01.jpg

Your left arm goes from relatively deep and very high to "out" quite a bit at A5.

This makes the forces in your hands work like this:

02.jpg

Notice how the clubhead lines up with the white line, which traces the butt of the club and thus roughly the direction in which you're pulling your hands?

The club's center of gravity (just above the shaft and above the clubhead) wants to line up behind whatever direction you're pulling the handle. Since your hands are going from high to down, pretty steeply, the clubhead and shaft come down steeply.

That's the first issue, definitely. The second issue is that you don't use your lower body much at all:

03.jpg

Your fix? Hands have to work down and then OUT more. The down is made easier when your hips are working forward, not just spinning quite so much from the top.

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OK man I feel ya.  I almost quit this year and rebuilding my swing with good online coaching, I'm almost done. I have not hit a full shot in over two months.  It's a bitter pill.  I'm gonna chime in but you have to put in the work with quality instruction.  Go find it and a quick fix is NOT the solution.  Don't quit and do something about it.  A FO view would be helpful but we have a DTL only. Good news is you can fix this if you work on it and stop hitting balls as you have many good elements in your swing. You have to move your body correctly first and the club will behave.  Key faults that are causing havoc: 1. Your'e making a big arm swing and a tiny body turn and you are across the line. 2. You're lifting your right heel WAAAAY off the ground and losing your axis tilt. 3. You're spinning out your hips and too open at impact and not releasing the club correctly(holding on).   Use your right shoulder blade to PULL the club back with momentum and be done with it once you're hands are over your right shoulder. This will feel like a very short takeaway for you.  Let your turn and weight shift to the rear heel dictate what your left knee is doing, then shift into your left heel and post up (straighten your left leg and let go of the lag, let the club turn over).  Don't push with the left shoulder to take it back; pull don't push.  At 6:22  that's what it's supposed to look like!!!!  It's called lag and proper swing plane.  Good luck man!

Edited by RST Rebuild

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Yeah it's a little steep coming down but you have other issues that need to be cleaned up, but try this.  This is NOT a quick fix but a check for right side dominance. There is no quick single fix for this swing as we have a few flaws in play here.  Try to do this with a stable right knee and DON'T straighten it on your take away.  Make a swing with your left arm only and shorten up your take away (hand just above your shoulder). Do this without a golf ball! It will feel like a short swing for you.  That's OK, you're not hitting a golf ball. Keep it short and keep tension out of arm.  Pull your arm back with your right shoulder only and don't push it back. See if you have improvement when your left hand is about waist high coming down.  That's where you should see what you're looking for.  If you do, your right arm/hands/wrists/thumb are not staying passive until you reach the release point or the other movements that need cleaning up are causing it.  Remember, it's not the club, it's your body movement.  The club will behave with correct body motion.  Golf is a left side dominate game for right handed players and that right side is probably taking over.  It has to stay quiet until the release. 

Edited by RST Rebuild

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Oh one more thing, do this without lifting your right heel off the ground.  It's taught I know that but it's causing some issues for you.  Just let it break to the inside where the right side of your entire right shoe has some tiny tiny tiny space underneath at the imaginary impact point, it's subtle. Then the heel can come off the ground.

Edited by RST Rebuild

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Thanks for the insight guys. I will work on getting the backswing less high in the air. I used to have a flat shoulder turn so I’ve been trying to make it steep (I’ve been told my body will work the club under if I do this). Also I “feel” like I’m using my legs quite a bit. From the top I “feel” like I’m slamming my weight straight down through my front foot (while trying to shallow and drop the club down) and clearing my hips . It seems to me like better golfers are more closed halfway down....basically I don’t know how to use my legs and which direction to send my momentum. I’m definitely not sending any of it to first base. Thanks again for the suggestions.

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14 hours ago, RST Rebuild said:

Try to do this with a stable right knee and DON'T straighten it on your take away.

Please don't do this.

Let the right knee extend.

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4 hours ago, iacas said:

Please don't do this.

Let the right knee extend.

Don’t worry. During the first couple months of my swing change and losing all my distance. I found my distance came from loading my right hip. I try not to l

Sorry “ try not to lock it” but loading my hip won’t change

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I wanted to show you what I'm trying to relay to you.  It helps to see it. No club or even the right arm here so you can focus on what the body is doing and you can check to see if your right arm is taking over and steepening that shaft. You can shorten your backswing by maintaining some right knee flex, it will limit how much you can take it back, which is one of your problems.  If you load into you're right butt and not straighten your right leg all the way, maybe it feels like the hip but it's your butt and right ankle , and maintain most of your right knee flex and anchor into the ground, you will have more stability and you simply won't want to keep going back because you will feel loaded up. This is the backswing. Done and with most all of the right knee flex intact.

 vlcsnap-2018-10-19-18h13m15s909.png.8c67ce592f2b9a43199d55b4d553a74e.png

This is the impact zone with tilt intact. Loose flex in the right leg and say goodbye to a good impact position. You will get vertical just like in your video and loose your axis tilt.

 vlcsnap-2018-10-19-18h13m39s865.png.395ea123e9eb6032014d377e0935e1b6.png

Post release hand flipped over and right heel will lift from the clubs momentum and bring you to your finish position. The whole point of having lag is to release it for distance. You have a ton of it. Let it go and turn it over.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-18h13m49s781.png.8446ea4b9c4fd31ba762e9bb94ced9ca.png  

If you can get in these positions that I snapped from a drill swing and ingrain it, then add the club while shifting your weight correctly and still do it.  You're gonna be a happy camper man.  There are many ways to swing a club but I think this can help you and it is up to you to try it and judge for yourself. I suffered from a HUGE over swing as well and it took two months to get this corrected because I kept fighting it and looking online for answers. So I'm not gonna point you to any articles or online info, just sharing what I've been taught that actually fixed it. Good luck with the swing mate!

 

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19 minutes ago, RST Rebuild said:

I wanted to show you what I'm trying to relay to you.  It helps to see it. No club or even the right arm here so you can focus on what the body is doing and you can check to see if your right arm is taking over and steepening that shaft. You can shorten your backswing by maintaining some right knee flex, it will limit how much you can take it back.

 

Thanks RST. I was doing the drill just a tad wrong. So thanks for the pics. But I took your advise and started working to shortening my swing. I did the right shoulder takeaway in drills to find my position. also I have been 100% straightening my right leg at impact. It’s always coming around to the right...so I tried to straighten it. I will stop doing that lol. So basically I’m trying to shorten my backswing while still loading my “hip” or backside. Then Im working on bumping my hips more laterally and less spinny than before. Finally I’m trying to keep my stupid right foot down and right knee in. I won’t be applying vertical pressure with my right leg anymore. For now I’m gonna try to send it towards the target if anything. I know that if I stay in my posture in the downswing, the right knee kind of ends up close to my left knee. I’ve had a very very hard time staying in my posture in the downswing. One of my other issues -as I try to rotate and pivot through the downswing, my head gets ahead of it. That has been driving my crazy for 3 months now. If I keep my head back, my body doesn’t seem to rotate. I’m ignoring the head for now.

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Setup.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h05m38s531.thumb.png.d0801b2de31c2e1c1380887e312745d1.png

Big shoulder turn and tiny arm swing.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h05m49s424.thumb.png.7cf08b28d701028c81d891cae9b4e84f.png

Backswing done and shift left.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h06m04s227.thumb.png.79832a4abccf4b2d2b200507bbd8f5e8.png

Use your left leg to pull your weight over.  Lag zone

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h06m22s048.thumb.png.be0dddf97a6ccc212949f037a4d05c73.png

The left side is lined up on top of ankle, knee, hip and shoulder joints. Left side of hand facing the target.  There's no weight at the end of a flipped over club so this can be late for drilling's sake as there is no weight at the end of the club to release. Right foot rolling over.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h06m40s856.thumb.png.c555e80b587909b6dc450c89406b2305.png

Club flipped over.  You will find you distance will improve immensely if you do this.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h06m55s293.thumb.png.2daf9ca20915ee0db5c11d0da0ac4bfa.png 

 

Do this with very little tension in your shoulders and arms or they will fire first.  Be around if you have any questions. 

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That picture of big shoulder turn/tiny arm swing is huge. My brain interpreted it differently. I’m going to keep doing my thousand drills at home and hit the range for some work. I’ll send some pictures  from the session-probably in a couple days. Thanks for taking the time with the pictures, very helpful.

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Cool.  If you want to hit balls, just rep in a few swings without the ball first and try it. If you fail, more reps without the ball or you will be ingraining a flaw and holding yourself back.  Don't do 1000 reps if you're not sure they are being done right, worst thing you could do.  Video every 25 attempts or so and take a look and back up when you have a fail. Once it's on auto pilot hit your 1000 and move on to your next goal.  You know, after looking at you again, you get back with right leg flexed after you straightened it. Just keep most of the flex and shorten it up and do your thing with a passive right arm.  Even with the flaws, if you release that club by straightening your left leg and flip it over, you should see a  dramatic distance improvement. Who knows where it will go but you're not at a point where that matters right now so stay focused on your body moves. I gave you some check points to mimic; keep it simple and start by shifting weight, then rotation and maintaining that spine angle with a tiny arm swing.  Then keep going and rep it in. I knew you would get it if you could see it. I'm not a golf instructor but I have word class coaching and just sharing and if it helps you, what's wrong with that.  I'm just telling you what they teach me bud and I'm seeing amazing results.  See ya soon.

 

Edited by RST Rebuild

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3 hours ago, RST Rebuild said:

This is the impact zone with tilt intact. Loose flex in the right leg and say goodbye to a good impact position. You will get vertical just like in your video and loose your axis tilt.

 vlcsnap-2018-10-19-18h13m39s865.png.395ea123e9eb6032014d377e0935e1b6.png

Post release hand flipped over and right heel will lift from the clubs momentum and bring you to your finish position. The whole point of having lag is to release it for distance. You have a ton of it. Let it go and turn it over.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-18h13m49s781.png.8446ea4b9c4fd31ba762e9bb94ced9ca.png

I'm not a fan of those photos up above. The average good player is far, far more open with the hips and torso than you're demonstrating, and I hate having to roll the hands and forearms like you're demonstrating in the second picture. Quite often if you're that closed at impact the overtaking rate is through the roof (like you're demonstrating) and you have to roll the hands/forearms.

But, not a fan. Average PGA Tour player is about 40-45° open with the hips at impact, and 20-25° with the torso.

2 hours ago, RST Rebuild said:

Setup.

vlcsnap-2018-10-19-20h05m38s531.thumb.png.d0801b2de31c2e1c1380887e312745d1.png

Don't love that setup position. I prefer the sternal notch relatively centered, and axis tilt created by the hips being an inch or so forward. Creates the axis tilt without putting your head back like that.

Screen Shot 2018-10-19 at 10.39.34 PM.png

And hey, don't take any of this personally… just sharing what I think, as you are. If the OP @Slim_Pivot wants more explanations for the "why" on some of these, happy to share more.

 

P.S. How about a face-on view, there, @Slim_Pivot?

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I don't take it personally at all. You're entitled to your opinion my friend.  Respectfully, we can just agree to disagree.  I'm not asking for a swing review here, just sharing info.  If I had asked for help with what's wrong with my swing, then please chime in, but I'm not.

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10 minutes ago, RST Rebuild said:

You're entitled to your opinion my friend.

I wouldn't call it all "opinion." Good players are much more open at impact than you are (demonstrating, at least), and I've got good data, good reasons, etc. for the things I recommend (and teach).

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