Soft Stepped PX 6.0 vs KBS Tour Stiff

[Balls_Deep]

I've heard and read a lot of the PX 6.0 being jarring and harsh. Looking to get a slightly more penetrating ball flight into wind but still have good stopping power on the green. 120g is my ideal weight. Looks like the PX 6.0 ss is FCM 6.1 to KBS stiff at 6.0 so I imagine they should be pretty similar stiffness wise but maybe be a slightly better wind shaft? Anybody compared the two? They'd be going into my Ping i200. Two sets near me that are pretty cheap 3-PW that would SS into my 4-UW set. 

[billchao]

I play KBS Tour stiff shafts hard stepped. I like the shaft a lot and I'm surprised you find them lacking in the wind.

I did get to try Project X 6.0 in a similar iron at a demo day they felt awful. Too light, which was weird because they're the same weight. Just couldn't quite get a good feel for the clubhead. Hit the ball great though, which confused me even more. I have a tendency to curve the KBS Tour too much but the shots I hit with the PX were practically on a string. Left me wondering if I should make a shaft change, despite not liking the feel. Will probably go to a fitter in the spring and see some shaft options.

Both shafts get the ball up in the air quickly. PX is known to launch the ball high and flatten out, which I definitely saw. Spin rate was comparable. 

[Balls_Deep]

  On 11/21/2018 at 7:33 PM, billchao said:

I play KBS Tour stiff shafts hard stepped. I like the shaft a lot and I'm surprised you find them lacking in the wind.

I did get to try Project X 6.0 in a similar iron at a demo day they felt awful. Too light, which was weird because they're the same weight. Just couldn't quite get a good feel for the clubhead. Hit the ball great though, which confused me even more. I have a tendency to curve the KBS Tour too much but the shots I hit with the PX were practically on a string. Left me wondering if I should make a shaft change, despite not liking the feel. Will probably go to a fitter in the spring and see some shaft options.

Both shafts get the ball up in the air quickly. PX is known to launch the ball high and flatten out, which I definitely saw. Spin rate was comparable. 

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Great that's very helpful. A lot of people do talk about the feel of the PX being very different. I considered putting some prosoft inserts in them. I love the feel of the KBS for sure. I want something similar just a bit better into the wind and "climbing" rather than just high. 

[billchao]

  On 11/21/2018 at 7:42 PM, Balls_Deep said:

Great that's very helpful. A lot of people do talk about the feel of the PX being very different. I considered putting some prosoft inserts in them. I love the feel of the KBS for sure.

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I wouldn't call the PX "harsh" but theres definitely a quality I was not a fan of. KBS feels fluid, flows. It's not an overall stiffness issue, but where the two shafts are stiffer and softer that sets them apart.

  On 11/21/2018 at 7:42 PM, Balls_Deep said:

I want something similar just a bit better into the wind and "climbing" rather than just high. 

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Not certain PX is the shaft for you then, because I feel it launches higher than KBS Tour.

Still, a ball that climbs is the exact opposite of what I would consider a boring trajectory that's good in the wind. But trajectory is one of those things where words mean different things to different people; I have a hard time describing my ball flight visually and comparing it to others'.

[Balls_Deep]

  On 11/21/2018 at 8:28 PM, billchao said:

I wouldn't call the PX "harsh" but theres definitely a quality I was not a fan of. KBS feels fluid, flows. It's not an overall stiffness issue, but where the two shafts are stiffer and softer that sets them apart.

Not certain PX is the shaft for you then, because I feel it launches higher than KBS Tour.

Still, a ball that climbs is the exact opposite of what I would consider a boring trajectory that's good in the wind. But trajectory is one of those things where words mean different things to different people; I have a hard time describing my ball flight visually and comparing it to others'.

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Yes completely understand what you mean and I don't think I described it properly. I don't mean a flight with a ton of upward curve if that makes sense but rather one with a straight penetrating trajectory that gradually gets higher but is flat. If it launches high but is penetrating I'm good with that. Agree KBS feel awesome.

[billchao]

  On 11/21/2018 at 8:34 PM, Balls_Deep said:

Yes completely understand what you mean and I don't think I described it properly. I don't mean a flight with a ton of upward curve if that makes sense but rather one with a straight penetrating trajectory that gradually gets higher but is flat. If it launches high but is penetrating I'm good with that. Agree KBS feel awesome.

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I'm still surprised you're looking for a better shaft in the wind. I don't think KBS Tour has any issues in the wind and it feels better. Could the cause be your swing rather than your shafts?

For me, I'm trying to figure out if my lateral dispersion is actually better with PX or I just happened to be hitting the irons really well on that particular day (didn't have my own clubs with me for a side-by-side comparison). If it's the former, I'll switch. I can live with the feel if I'm hitting better shots.

[Casualgolfer]

I just switched from KBS Tour shafts to project x 7.0 and like the ball flight much better. More piercing flight for me. It is a little more "harsh" but only on mishit balls which I like. I should have to pay for sucking lol.

[Balls_Deep]

  On 11/21/2018 at 10:47 PM, Casualgolfer said:

I just switched from KBS Tour shafts to project x 7.0 and like the ball flight much better. More piercing flight for me. It is a little more "harsh" but only on mishit balls which I like. I should have to pay for sucking lol.

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Must have a pretty quick swing to load a 7.0!

  On 11/21/2018 at 8:47 PM, billchao said:

I'm still surprised you're looking for a better shaft in the wind. I don't think KBS Tour has any issues in the wind and it feels better. Could the cause be your swing rather than your shafts?

For me, I'm trying to figure out if my lateral dispersion is actually better with PX or I just happened to be hitting the irons really well on that particular day (didn't have my own clubs with me for a side-by-side comparison). If it's the former, I'll switch. I can live with the feel if I'm hitting better shots.

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I've done some reading and have found countless posts of people saying they too struggled into the wind with KBS tour. They're great feeling shafts no doubt but I'd lose some of that smoothness for a more piercing flight. 

[Balls_Deep]

So went and hit my 7 iron i200 with KBS tour and a Cally Apex Pro 16 7 iron with Project X 6.0 (not soft stepped) yesterday. I was hitting straight-ish to high fades. I often hit draws on the course but it drops the spin way off on the sim so I try to hit straight to fade for comparisons. Also tried MP18 SC with KBS tour and hated them. 

Both at 86-88mph clubhead speed 

i200 with KBS tour

162-164 carry

16.5-18.5* launch

118-119 ball speed 

6500k rpm spin

31 yard peak height

47* descent angle 

 

Apex Pro Forged with Project X 6.0

167-169 Carry

Between 15-18.5 launch (down to strike I'm sure)

119-120.3 ball speed

5700-6000k spin 

27-30 yard peak height 

43-45* descent angle 

better dispersion***

 

Had no problem loading the PX at all and it didn't feel harsh to me, but I was also hitting it in a forged head. I also am taking the numbers with a grain of salt as they are two different heads. I was caught off guard by how much ball speed comes off the Apex Pro. I didn't think I had the game for them to be honest and never tried them but man is that a nice club. Some cheap sets around me as well but I don't think they have the shafts I want/need. I liked the PX feel and was able to hit them a bit straighter. They did, as advertised lower the ball flight and spin for me. 

So... looks to me like:

1. Spin is more optimal with my clubs
2. Descent angle may be too shallow with PX for my swing
3. 27-30 yard peak height may be too low? 

 

What are your thoughts on my numbers? I was surprised by the ball speed and carry jump. With roll it totalled to 10 yards further than my clubs which was weird given the Apex Pro is a semi blade. 

 

[Balls_Deep]

**Part of my reason for thinking of this change is that my KBS tour came in these irons a half inch short so I had to get them lengthened. There was something weird about the shafts and nobody (myself, my club builder, and a big box store) could get grips to set on them properly. The shafts won't take the tape/solvent and even blown on grips didn't work properly. So weird. So the tops of my grips still twist a bit which is very annoying. If the PX can give me similar numbers I'll switch because they will all be the right length and I won't have grip issues. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Balls_Deep

[Casualgolfer]

  On 11/21/2018 at 10:59 PM, Balls_Deep said:

Must have a pretty quick swing to load a 7.0!

I've done some reading and have found countless posts of people saying they too struggled into the wind with KBS tour. They're great feeling shafts no doubt but I'd lose some of that smoothness for a more piercing flight. 

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I do indeed. Got a 3x shaft in my driver too. The KBS tour shafts definitely felt smoother but I felt like I over powered them. Would hit alot of ballooning shots with my longer irons. The 7.0's I think are great. I get a lower flight and better dispersion it seems. Still get plenty of spin to stop on greens with longer irons as well. They are harsher feeling on mishit balls but I like the feedback it gives me.

[billchao]

  On 11/24/2018 at 1:06 PM, Casualgolfer said:

I get a lower flight and better dispersion it seems.

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I felt I hit PX more accurately as well, and I've read other people's accounts of the same. Must be something to to it. I was seriously considering switching before and it's back on my mind now.

  On 11/24/2018 at 1:06 PM, Casualgolfer said:

They are harsher feeling on mishit balls but I like the feedback it gives me.

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For me, the feel I didn't like with PX was how it loaded during the downswing and not how it felt at impact.

I don't care if mishits feel harsh. They're supposed to; they're supposed to make you hate yourself so you never want to do it again 😜