irspow

Damn you! I live in the stinking northeast and haven't even packed up my winter clothes yet. Welcome! I'm glad to see a lot of people joining the forum. I just joined myself. It seems there are a lot of decent discussions going on here. Hope you find as much interesting stuff as I have. Tom

I think we'll see a Canadiens/San Jose Finals showdown myself. Candiens win due to their superior special teams though. My lowly Flyers just squeaked in the playoffs and will fall in the second round to the damn Devils. Ouch...again. Tom

I use the same mechanics for the chip or pitch shots that I do for all golf shots. I also only use my lob wedge for all shots within 100 yards. Except of course putting and sand shots in soft sand. ( I live in the northeast where "sand" is usually more like bleached dirt!) I am always amazed at how difficult most people make chipping and pitching out to be. To explain this I will tell you how I introduce my students to how simple chipping should be. After they are proficient putters with good speed control I set them up with four balls at the edge of the green. They look at me stupid and proceed to make pretty decent putts on line and with good speed. Then I set up four more balls three inches into the fringe hand them a wedge and their stroke becomes something totally different and manufactured with nowhere near their proficiency demonstrated only a few inches closer to the hole. I am always amazed, even to this day. It seems that for some reason or other their swing is completely transformed for the worse. Once I have them make a few logical set up adjustments and convince them to swing no differently than they would with their putter, presto they think their Seve or somebody. For many the mere idea that they are simply making a long putt revolutionizes their game. As for the difference between chipping and pitching, there really isn't one as far as I'm concerned apart from somantics. A chip rolls further than it flies and a pitch flies further than it rolls, simple as that. This is exactly how I teach all of my students how the short game works. Tilt the shaft until when soled it has the loft that matches the launch angle that you want. Next take your normal grip without altering the shaft angle. Let the club now hang relaxed above the ground and rotate your entire body until the leading edge of the club faces the target. Rotate away from the target and back towards the target while remaining completely relaxed with your arms and hands, as you do in any golf shot. All you have to control is how fast you are rotating just like any other motion that humans make when propelling objects. The hardest thing for most people is to not use their hands to scoop or otherwise "hit" the ball. If you learn to "swing" the club, for both long and short shots, you will find that the tool will get the job done. That being said, I do advocate a definite forward shaft lean at address for most recreational golfers until they can really keep their hands out of the equation. It helps to ensure a downward blow to the ball which, in my experience is the hardest thing for most golfers to accomplish with their short game shots. Everyone knows that backspin makes the ball go up but they still want to "sweep" or scoop the ball. Whatever. To wrap it up, pretend your chips are simply longer putts that magically roll over the long grass. I personally don't think anyone should be any better putting than chipping. I approach every chip as sinkable. Practice setting the loft you want for the shot intended and keep your hands as quiet as possible. Avoid manipulating the club arbitrarily or cocking your wrist because you think that you need to. If your hands are relaxed and the swing is long enough your wrists will cock naturally and only as much as is necessary. Tom

I always take a practice swing after I know what shot that I am going to hit. It is like I am telling my body what it is going to do when I go to hit the shot. I only take another if the first one doesn't FEEL right. I think that it is essential in breeding confidence. You can stay perfectly relaxed when you are confident. You can usually only pull off the shot well if you are relaxed. At least that's my line of thought on the matter. Tom

Good luck finding any square clubs these days. Almost everything is set up hooded because people aren't willing to learn how to swing a club correctly. My Ping driver was supposed to be "square" but on my workbench proved to be 2 degrees closed. Luckily, a friend of mine was proficient at adjusting this. Even still the face is set slightly back of the shaft. They never used to make clubs that way. Everything now is ridiculously oversized, hooded, and delofted. The club making industry is breeding bad golfers with their garbage equipment in my opinion. If you never took a lesson and adapted to today's latest technology, you would indeed be left with a ugly and inefficient golf swing. Sad. Why don't baseball players use bats the size of telephone poles? How about the NBA making the hoop about three feet in diameter so that casual players can sink a few more baskets? It's just silly. The only people benefiting from all of this garbage are the club manufacturers not the average player. Average handicaps haven't changes at all in over forty years. Think about that the next time you are told to dump a thousand on the latest driver gimmick. Sorry, just rambling, but those pimps at Callaway and the rest aren't doing anyone any favors. Every other sport standardizes their equipment and lets the talent of the athletes determine how well they play. The USGA and R&A; must be getting some pretty big envelopes behind closed doors to allow this farce to continue. Tom

1. They don't fly as high as my irons...for me. 2. They don't get as much backspin...for me. Harder to stop on greens when compared to equivalent iron. 3. Working the ball with woods accurately, okay "hybrids", is a little tougher for me than with my irons. 4. Finally, since I have been playing for some time, I still hate addressing the ball with the clubs the size of car doors behind the ball. Clubs keep getting bigger and uglier every day and yet the average handicap hasn't gotten any better in eons. Hmmm. If you like them and they work for you, that is all that matters. Tom

This thread seems funny to me. Using whatever tool works for you is a no-brainer. I have been playing for some time and actually didn't get rid of my 1 iron until about 3 years ago. My iron set still starts at the 2 iron, which I use from about 225 yards with a good lie on the fairway. There are pros and cons with either choice if you ask me. I have tried the "hybrids", new marketing name for fairway woods, and found they are slightly easier to hit from the rough, but don't produce nearly the same amount of backspin that I get from the long irons. In other words I can stop my 3 iron on the green but I struggle to get say a 5 wood to do the same. I also hit irons of the same loft higher than the fairway woods of the same loft. The "softer" leading edge and larger heads of the hybrids do get it out of the rough easier though. In the end, if you have decent clubhead speed and like to work the ball, long irons are the way to go. If you have slower clubhead speed and spend a lot of time in the rough, hybrids are probably a better choice for you to go with. By the way, I dropped the 1 iron because I decided that I could use a lob wedge far more often in my regular game. I use it for almost all shots 100 yards and in. I'm from the camp that tries to be expert with manipulating one club like Jack versus using four wedges like a Dave Pelz system. To each his own. Tom

The best ball is the ball that fits your swing. I recommend that everyone meets up with a qualified pro and launch monitor to see which ball will help you the most. A great swing with a poor smash factor and spin rate is a recipe for frustration. Tom

I agree with the earlier posts. You can also rotate the clubface very slightly closed as this will allow the club to hang naturally a little further behind your hands at address. With the shorter swing it is harder to get your body and hands ahead of the clubhead because of the shorter time involved and a less aggressive transition. You can also try to shift more aggressively during transition flattening the shaft more than normal making you come from further inside. This takes practice though, you have been warned. I personally like to make relatively full back swings for these "half" swings and simply rotate a little slower in the downswing. Think about when you throw a ball at different distances. You don't worry about how far you reach back but simply rotate your body towards your target at different speeds naturally without thinking about it. This is one of those areas that I think people make the game way more difficult than it really needs to be. Tom

A great drill to get your sequencing down is to try hitting your driver in fifty yard increments. You develop a great appreciation for how fast your torso needs to rotate in order to generate clubhead speed. It's much slower than most think. This drill is great, you will find that a relatively slow torso rotation (between 4 and 5 mile per hour) will generate considerable clubhead speed and distance. The purpose of starting at 50 yards and working your way out is to keep the arms and hands quiet. I use this often to keep my body rotation from getting faster than my relaxed arms and hands can handle. Once they tense up you will lose distance. Tom

I think that almost everyone misses a very important relationship that is just as important if not more so than having your hands ahead of the clubhead at impact. This should be quite enlightening for those who are trapped in traditional instruction these days. Stand erect and rotate your let arm around your body straight out in front of you. You will notice that until your arm reaches a point in front of your shoulder that the hand is moving further away from you. Inside-out swing. After it passes your shoulder it gets closer to you. Outside-in swing. You can have all of the lag (hands in front of the clubhead) in the world, but if your hands catch up to your lead shoulder, you are toast. So be sure to FEEL as though your arms never catch up to your body until at least two feet or so after impact. You will never slice this way, guarenteed! Tom

Okay, I'll bite. I think that I am a nine. Maybe that sounds smug, but I've devoted more than half of my life studying all of the information I can get my hands on regarding the game and the swing itself specifically. While my index should be lower because of my knowledge, I feel that I will never really reach my true potential. I have an insatiable desire to understand all of the different methods to swing a club efficiently which leads to a never ending series of experiments. I feel that I have to KNOW all of the possible methods, both by feel and technique, in order to be able to reach and help as many people as possible with my instruction. This along with looking at terrible swings most of the day will probably forever doom me to never developing a razor sharp game for myself. But then I am an instructor not a player. Tom

I believe the swing plane can help in studying one's swing, but that it is often used to destroy peoples natural swings. As noted earlier, Ben Hogan's works describe them well, he after all first introduced them, and are an excellent description to help in understanding the subject. Many great golfers, most notably Jack Niklaus, used a two plane swing. Very upright in the backswing with a very steep flattening during the transition on towards impact. That is an acceptable technique that provides good results but requires excellent timing and a tremendous amount of practice. Still many professionals use this method, but I think that the majority of golfers would benefit by approaching a method closer to a one-plane type of swing. The problem with the very upright swing plane is that, unless you can develop a very aggressive yet controlled transition, your club will never flatten out enough before impact. The result is usually an outside-in swing path and all the usually maladies associated with it in common golfers. This need for a dramatic transition is why I never advocate an upright swing for the recreational golfer. They simply do not have the time to practice this move enough to make it repeatable. Sadly, this is still the most common type of instruction found today. Perhaps that is why the majority of golfers are so bad at this beautiful game. I have much more success in teaching people to stay much closer to the shaft plane (that angle established by the shaft at address) throughout the entire swing. This is a lot easier to maintain as all you have to do is NOT lift the club during the backswing. If the torso turns and the spine angle stays constant the club cannot go anywhere but stay on the shaft plane. Then any decent transition move initiated with the lower body can flatten it enough to go below this plane for a nice inside-out path. Yes, you must drop below the original shaft plane to deliver an inside-out swing. Anyway, I think that many instructors incorrectly advocate a steeper swing plane to produce a more descending blow to the ball with more backspin, but they are failing to realize where most of the downward movement occurs approaching impact. In a good golf swing most of the downward movement of the clubhead before impact is a result of the lag that exists before the release. More specifically, the further ahead your hands are in relation to the ball before release. Usually greater lag, not a steeper swing plane, will produce more backspin and higher ball flight. Not to mention far superior clubhead speed with less effort. In summary, stay flat my friend, work on your lag. Keep your body as far ahead of the clubhead as possible until after impact. You will see your shot soar high and far. Remember, backspin has far more to do with the height of your shot than the loft of the club. Tom

Just something else for you to try. If you are a consistent striker, you can play the shot like a standard chip shot with your most lofted club. You must make clean contact with the ball first however, so fried-egg lies don't allow for this type of shot. I "chip" with my lob wedge in the back of my stance and it comes out low and releases just like a "putt" when landing on the surface. I am not sure exactly why, I admit. I believe that the sand below the ball does not allow for it to pinch against the "ground" and the relatively slow clubhead speed of a chip doesn't produce too much backspin. This shot is only for use when you are no more than about ten yards from the green however. In general, the biggest influence on how a ball releases is the angle of incidence (for any shot), so for maximum release you must use the lowest trajectory that you comfortably can. Tom

My favorite putting drill is simply to place balls starting at six inches from the cup and then spaced about every foot until at the edge of the green. Make one, step sideways, make the next, step, etc. until I reach the edge of the green. You get really good from inside about fifteen feet this way and get to know the very slight increase in stroke from one foot to the next. You also wind up practicing a lot more than most people inside of three foot. It breeds tremendous confidence making all the short ones while working your way out. This drill is even more beneficial on a severe slope giving you much more experience in judging how much more important speed is than direction. Most amateurs don't seem to realize that they almost never miss a putt by more than a foot or two in direction, but that almost all of their three putts are a result of poor speed control. Just food for thought. Tom

Yes, Saks, if you were to only turn your torso away while keeping your arms completely relaxed (Think cooked spaggetti noodles!) that lead arm will stay relatively straight without you having to think about it. Again, most people bend that arm when attempting to lift the club after their shoulders have stopped turning. When your shoulders stop turning the back swing is over! Tom

Hello All, I stumbled upon this site by accident and found many of the threads interesting. I have been teaching golf on and off for nearly fifteen years, only in the last five seriously, and am currently working on my pga folder. I love teaching and playing this game more than almost anything else in my life. I frequently discuss many of the same things with my fellow teachers as those topics on this forum do, but I was somewhat amazed and intrigued at some of the ideas presented by common golfers here. In my never ending quest to learn more and more about golf this forum seems to have considerable merit. It seems that this place can expand my knowledge of the wonderful world of golf and I look forward to the growth. Hopefully, I can learn and maybe teach something from and to people I otherwise would never have met. I look forward to the interaction with all here with something to share. Tom "Love golf, live golf."

I will throw my hat into the ring on this topic. Take what you may. I shape my shot in three steps. The technique has prove quite accurate for me so it may help others who are unsure how to go about shaping their shots precisely. I will warn you that it is not pga manual advice however. 1. Set up as though you were aiming at the apex of curvature. The point where the ball will be at when furthest away from the target. 2. Loosen your grip enough that you can rotate the club in your fingers to face the final target or where you want the ball to land, then regrip. 3. Rotate or move your feet and entire body until the face of the club points towards your apex point again. Swing naturally. A little unorthodox, but quite accurate for me. Have fun making rainbows! Tom "Love golf, live golf."

Ball position is different for every club and for every type of diffent grip. No ball position is correct for every person. Many variables cannot be accounted for, even wrist flexibility play a vital role. Take any short iron and your normal grip, let your arms hang as relaxed as possible, then bend at the waist until the club touches the ground. Note that position. Do the above with your driver. You will find that your driver naturally hangs further forward than say your nine iron. This is because of the different relationship between center of masses of the particular clubs with respect to your naturally hanging position of your hands. This demonstrates why different clubs occupy diffents relative position within any persons stance. And these positions are not arbitrary ones that some so-and-so recommends. Now take a short iron with your normal grip, rotate the face open 5 degrees, and repeat the process described above. Not the spot which the club touches the ground. Now take the same club, rotate the face closed 5 degrees, repeat process above, and you will find that it will touch the ground behind where it was when the face was opend. Again, this has to do with the changing position of the center of mass of the club relative to your hands in their natural position. I hope that this has demonstrated that any guideline at ball position is totally uninformed and ultimately flawed. Every person's skeletal structure, wrist flexibility, grip position, stance, and endlessly ongoing variables influence the true position of a naturally hanging clubhead. I know this is long-winded but it is one of those areas that I believe has proven to be one of the most detrimental to golfers everywhere for quite some time. Let the club go where it wants to, placing it arbitrarily where someone else does will doom you to a lifetime of inconsistency. By the way, this method allows for correct ball placement on all lies not just those at the driving range. Tom "Love golf, live golf."

As an instructor I feel for you. My greatest joy is in seeing the excitement of someone when they see their true potential realized when learning something new that helps them perform better than they knew they could. I don't live near Tallahassee so unless you want to pay for my travel expenses I am not a viable option. I would recomment that you go to pga.com and look up local professionals in your area. Most of them will be more than willing to help you find your game. Usually those who sound as confounded as you are simply thinking about way too many things. Before you attempt to rebuild your entire game try to simplify your game and swing as much as is possible. Try to forget everything that you have ever "learned" before now. My simplest swing description is as follows: Turn you belly button directly away from the target as fully as you comfortably can and then turn your belly button to face directly at the target at a comfortable speed. (Much slower than most believe is necessary!) If you do this while keeping your arms and hands COMPLETELY relaxed, you will be back on track. Golf today is made much more complicated than it really needs to be. It seems that for many, the more they learn the more confused they become. Keep it simple and relaxed. The more things you attempt to do, the more things that you will do incorrectly, we are humans after all. Tom "Love golf, live golf."

I feel that golf is a game of results not necessary one of techniques. I personally use an open stance quite successfully. The way I explain why it is successful for me and many others is really simple. If you were to ask a hundred people to roll a ball with their hand towards the hole naturally almost all of them would use their dominant or throwing hand with their palm facing the hole. The interesting tendency is for them to open their body without thinking to allow their palm to face the target more comfortably. In almost all precision actions necessary to propel an object at a target humans naturally face the final target in question. In general, putting instruction tends to be very unnatural and counter to human experience. I believe that most "traditional" putting techniques work more from practicing those techniques rather than taking advantage of natural talents already possessed by the individual. You could after all be a great putter standing on one leg with one eye closed while singing the national anthem if you practiced enough. I just think that people should take advantage of what they would do if they weren't told they were doing it "wrong". Tom "Love golf, live golf."

I try not to mention a straight arm to my students unless they specifically ask about it. A stiff arm is much worse than a slightly bent one in my personal opinion. I believe that if one turns the body with completely relaxed arms and no "lifting" of the club that the arm will remain pretty straight without thinking about it. Almost without exception those who bend their left or target-side arm excessively are those who attempt to turn more after their shoulders have stopped. Once I convince them that maximum shoulder turn is important and not how far the club has gone back the problem pretty much takes care of itself. Far too many golfers try to put the club into positions that they are not flexible enough to reach correctly. Interestingly, one great golfer in history was quite successful with pronounced arm bend, even approaching 90 degress. Harry Vardon employed a three lever type swing that still mystifies me to this day. With a background in mechanical engineering I was always intrigued by his approach. Theoretically, the summation of velocities of a three lever swing is far superior to the accepted two lever one now almost unanomously used in studying the golf swing. Alas, I tinkered endlessly with his method and never found a successful method of employing it in real life. In my teaching I stay with the tried-and-true understanding that the target-side arm establishes and maintains the radius of the swing arc. Bottom-line.....comfortably straight and relaxed. Tom "Love golf, live golf."

I noticed that the average poster who grounded their clubs had an index of 15.3 while those who hovered their clubs had an average index of 6.3. I personally hover all clubs at address. This is primarily because I have found that lifting the club off of the ground immediately forces a slight but definite increase in grip pressure. I like to think that the grip pressure necessary to hover the club at address is that which I strive to maintain throughout the swing. I use this line of reasoning with all of my students to help them feel the light pressure that they should try to maintain. The wrists and arms can stay very relaxed without any sudden transition of weight at the start of the backswing. Earlier posters have noted that it nearly eliminates catching turf in the backswing which is very important as well. I would like to add the benefits of avoiding unnecessary penalties as you have not technically addressed the ball until you have "soled" your club. For those who wish to sole their club at address it is fine if you are successful with it as golf is a game of results. I would recommend that anyone who has not tried to hover the club dilligently to try to do so to see if it doesn't help them in some way. I do disagree somewhat with those who suggest that soling the club behind the ball helps them prepare for impact. Anyone who hits the ground before the ball does not strike it properly. Tom "Live the game, love the game."