JonMA1

We all have our battles to wage.

I don't play with very good players on very busy courses very often, but earlier in the year I did. My partner and I are high cappers and were paired with a father/son, both of whom were good with the son being a long hitter. On every par 5, the son was able to go for the green in two. This meant that while the rest of us had laid up on our second shot and would have been able clear that part of the fairway for the group behind us, we'd instead have to wait for the group in front to clear the green. That seemed to take forever. The kid certainly wasn't the cause of the 5+ hr round. It's hard to say if the group ahead (who had a caddy) were playing slowly or waiting for those ahead of them. I think they simply packed in too many golfers.

I took a bunch of video at the local driving range today. I was trying to figure out why I've been slicing my drives so much... to see if anything would show up on video. Of course, I hit nothing but relatively straight or slightly pulled drives. However, while looking through the videos I finally realized why I so often fail at making anything close to a full shoulder turn. The over-swing images on the (right) are just practice swings and not what I want in a swing. But it was bugging me why that kind of a turn was so easy, yet I almost never get to 90° in my real swing (left). It's because I turn my head so much on the practice swings and then try to prevent it from turning on the real swing. I'm not sure how this might help, but one thing I know for sure is that my head will have to turn a little (not as extreme as in the above photos) to make a better turn. My neck just is not flexible enough otherwise. So I took a few swings out in the yard tonight allowing my head to turn more. I've yet to take more video to confirm what effect this has on the shoulder turn (it feels a bit better), but was able to make good contact after a couple swings.

Point taken Vishal. Posts like yours are very encouraging to those of us who believe we just don't have what it takes. Thank you. And for those who do excel and reach a high level in a relatively short period of time, it's apparent that a lot of work is also needed. I don't want it to sound like I think people with extraordinary or even better-than-average talent don't have to also work their tails off to get there.

Good to hear from you again @rkim291968. Glad you're enjoying retirement and playing good golf.

I didn't see you at the range last time I practiced.

The main point of my post @Lihu was that where any of us live seems off-topic.

I agree that’s the perception and can accept it’s probably true. Yet, the article describes a European spectator sueing event organizers who may also be European. This thread was started by a European member of the site who brought up the possibility of a lawsuit in the op. It was further discussed here by many of the site’s European and American members. While there is certainly nothing wrong with any of that, I think it makes a post about Americans (specifically) wanting to make this a sue/not sue discussion a bit off-topic. To @MacDutch‘s point, I have no problem with organizers reaching a settlement or doing something nice for this unfortunate woman - if it’s something they wish to pursue. I also don’t have a problem with this accident prompting reasonable steps to reduce the chance of injuries. But at some point we have to understand there are risks in life and they are not always preventable nor are they always someone else’s fault. With all that said, I likely wouldn’t be very objective if I’d lost an eye.

Oh, the irony.

Not breaking 100 would be the least of our worries if we lost an eye. But it still wouldn't come down to anyone being at fault. You slice a drive at your home course resulting in a serious injury to another golfer. What would you do for them? Let's say you're the owner of a golf course where this occurs. What would you do? Maybe you're a good person and would give them half, or a third, or a even quarter of what you own even though you weren't required to by law.

It’s not logical to blame the player or the officials. It’s not anyone’s fault, just an unfortunate result.

I think a low percentage of folks break 90 within their first few months.

I shot a smooth painful 98. I'm probably the best worst ball strikers I know. Not sure what's going on lately. After playing a decent round with @tlazzol two weeks ago, I've had a couple of rounds where I seemed to have lost all muscular coordination. For most of August and September, I'd been able keep bad shots from turning into blowup holes and shooting several rounds in the upper 80's. That certainly wasn't the case today. Driver is still a hot mess. Could not hit my irons consistently well (mostly thinned). At least the short game and putting were both under control. Much worse than the poor golf was an inability to maintain my temper. I might go back to not keeping score for the rest of the season.

^^^^ Absolutely. I do not understand the importance and scramble to find some underlying reason after a loss. The European players were simply better. Congrats to their fans here on the site.

It's hard to say. It's possible some are not counting every stroke, or playing easy courses as you mentioned, but I'm guessing they are just better than average (or better than us) at learning the difficult skills needed to break 90. I see the same thing you do. Most of the folks I play with or watch at my course are not breaking 90. There seems to be a consensus among better players who believe most of us who take the game seriously and are of average athletic ability should be breaking 90 within a couple years. Maybe it's a flaw in my approach to learning, or maybe it's a natural ability I'm lacking, but breaking 90 in the first three or four years was not even on the radar for me. FWIW @Killa, after seven years I've just started to occasionally break 90 the last couple of months (less than 6,000 yards). I don't feel any difference between those rounds and the ones where I would shoot mid to upper 90's. You may be closer than you think.

Reason #13: Many crappy golfers want to put the blame anywhere but on themselves.

Yep. And we (my family) all lived 100 miles S.W. of where you now live when we were in St. Pete. Funny where life takes us.

Ok. My sons live down close to Dearborn - one is in Canton the other in Westland. I'm up in the Traverse City area. Unfortunately, we rarely get mild enough winters to play between November and April. However, my home course is also a ski resort and there have been years when the hills had snow while the course didn't (no flags as well). So the entire resort would be full of skiers and snowboarders and I'd be heading out to the course with my clubs and push cart. So yeah, people might stop and watch me... but it was more like "WTF is that crazy bastard doing?". Back on topic, I have an old set of Hogan Radials I'll often hit in the winter. Much as you described in a previous post, they're not bad until I hit an off-center shot.

Hopefully, everyone will be ok with an off-topic post... Where in Michigan @bad back?

I think there's a small difference between wanting to improve and wanting to improve the swing. I realize you can't have much of the former one some of the latter, but I think there are two extremes... 1) Feel the club head... natural swing... just swing and accept the consequences. This doesn't work for me. My natural swing is even worse than the one where I'm trying. Doing nothing leads me to a level of golf I probably could not learn to enjoy. 2) Continue to practice my ass off trying to perfect the 5 keys. It took me several years to discover this is a fail. It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to just prevent the swing from getting worse. Really bad golf is no fun, most of us would agree. But neither is continually failing at developing a swing that may be unachievable. Everyone is different in ability, ego, acceptance, and what they consider enjoyable. So it isn't surprising there are a wide range of replies and from a wide range of skill levels.

I feel your pain. I often have crowds gather just to watch me stretch out before a practice session. It’s embarrassing because in spite of my greatness I am an extremely modest guy. I think the sound of the cameras clicking would bother me if not for my super-human ability to focus.

I'm about the same age and the level of golf as you and have been playing for about 7 years. I don't know if I can stop trying to improve by changing the swing even though I sometimes wish I could. I'd like to at least stop taking it so seriously. I'm getting very close to being at the level I've wanted to get to, that being at or just below bogey golf and if that happens, I don't see any reason to believe there's much more than that to be had. I'm pretty sure I've peaked as far as distance but believe there's still room for improvement on some of the skills that are affected less by age. Kind of rambling response to your question. I'm not sure it's in my nature to accept what seems obvious. Making the change I want to my swing has been difficult (understatement). So maybe I'll work on incremental improvements over the years and not expect too much. The game can be enjoyable at our level.

Ignorant question here, but do the 3 piece balls offer better spin or control on the greens?

How dare you make light of something so serious!

I think you overestimate the ability of those will little to zero talent and you may even underestimate your own talent level. I say that with the utmost respect for those of you who have some natural talent and put in the good work. Now if you're excluding those of us who started the game later in life, you may be correct. I wouldn't know. I believe an average individual may get to the upper 80's in a couple years under those circumstances, but IMO, there are some - and it might only be 10% or whatever - who have almost no chance even with decent practice habits and a reasonable amount of time in which to practice and play. Believe me, I'd love to be wrong on this one. I don't say this as an excuse for being where I'm at after 7 years. I certainly could do better with my practice habits, but I do put a lot of effort into trying to practice properly. While I'm no natural athlete, I'm not a complete failure at other sports either. Golf requires a certain level or type of competency, or understanding, or whatever, that some of us lack. I've always enjoyed stories of a player who, despite putting in the work, plateaued in the upper 90's or worse for several years before making a change or have some sort of breakthrough to become considerably better rapidly. Those stories don't seem to be common.