What is going on with drivers? Seriously.

[Three Putt]

Oh, that's pretty much been done.

EASY !!!!!

Don't go ripping my driver !! It's 5 sided, shallow face, and sets up dead square. Got it for $87 at TGW with free shipping during the holidays. I like it a hell of a lot more than the R7 SuperQuad TP I sold on ebay in March.

[DaSportsGuy]

Honestly, I don't understand some of the comments made in this thread.

I can't agree more. I don't understand why people complain about biased clubs. The people who are using them are mostly golfers who are just out trying to enjoy the game and have a good time, not for people who plan on playing in tournaments and playing competitively any time soon(I'm assuming).

Either way, if you don't agree with biased clubs, simply seperate yourself from them. I've always hit a natural slice/fade. I don't believe in taking the easy way out and buying draw-biased clubs, so I simply refuse to use/buy them and continue to work on my swing, not my bag. But then again, I'm someone who wants to have success in golf, not just go out and enjoy myself and socialize. To me, that comes along with success.

[Shanks A Million]

I can't agree more. I don't understand why people complain about biased clubs. The people who are using them are mostly golfers who are just out trying to enjoy the game and have a good time, not for people who plan on playing in tournaments and playing competitively any time soon(I'm assuming).

I totally agree that draw biased clubs and more forgiving clubs are great for the game. My only real complaint is that companies don't really

truly try to fit the golfer individually, they simply make all their clubs to one specification and assume everyone fits that mold. It's hard to find anything but L, A, R, and S flex shafts, and closed faces or offset. I need X or XX shafts, neutral or open faces, and no offset. My fitting specs are for an 8° driver with an X flex, and I prefer a shorter 44" shaft with about a 0.5° open or neutral face. Try and buy that off the rack. I have to either special order ($$$!!!) or buy used. I generally buy used. Men are generally egotistical, and want to buy the hardest flex, and the lowest loft clubs. Companies know this, so they make their clubs more flexible, and make them with face roll so the effective loft is higher. The so called "stiff" shafts that most companies put on their woods these days are really R flexes it seems. It's getting worse and worse. I tried a TM 2 hybrid a few months back with the stock "S" shaft in it. It felt like a limp noodle. My driver has a early 2000s EI-70 "R" flex shaft in it, and it's stiffer than most X shafts on the market. It's also heavy as hell, which cuts several MPH from my swing. I did add more weight to slow down my swing so I wouldn't balloon it, actually. I'm only able to swing it about 110 mph with the extra weight, but the stock "S" shaft it came with enabled me to get my full 115-120 mph swing speed. It launched the ball so high, and with so much spin, I could hardly clear 200. It literally went about 210 yards, then plopped straight down and spun back! I had a pro hit it, and he got about 220! I have a 9.5° driver, which is low enough, but it still goes way too high. I still get 0 roll, or if I hit a major draw, maybe 10 yards. So, for the average 45 year old male, 5' 7", with a slice and a 25 handicap, the game has never been better.

[zrlaegel]

Great 3-wood, I want to get one, but i'm having problems finding a new one cause they're 3-4 years old. I found a used one the other day for $40, but it was in so-so shape. I would have bought it for $20.

you can get one of those at almost any Dicks just call around and see if one of your local ones have it in stock.

[Gordon McTavish]

Either way, if you don't agree with biased clubs, simply seperate yourself from them.

It's not that I'm against biased clubs, but my experience leads me to believe they aren't particularly effective.

Tried a Callaway FT-IQ (11.5*) last year under the advice that it would be a better choice for me than a 3-wood off the tee. I still sliced several balls despite the 1.0* closed face and square head. Obviously I have swing issues, but when certain equipment is pitched as being some kind of miracle cure for poor technique, it gets old. Surprisingly though, I demoed a 909D2 at the weekend, and managed to hit that left, despite the 0.5* open face. Suffice to say, a steel-shafted 3-wood is still a more forgiving and consistent choice for me off the tee. Shame I can't hit it off the deck...

[jetman624]

If they weren't constantly changing the size and shape of club heads, people would be upgrading far less frequently. It is a lot of marketing. I am sure there is some honest proven technology in there too, but I would wager it is mostly hype.

[Shanks A Million]

Surprisingly though, I demoed a 909D2 at the weekend, and managed to hit that left, despite the 0.5* open face.

That's not suprising. When you set up with an open face, your brain is telling you you need to close it. When you set up with a closed face, your brain is telling you you need to leave it open. I set every club up a touch open, because it does reinforce closing it properly.

[Awsi Dooger]

I'm probably in the minority, but I find that modern drivers do more harm for my game than any other club in the bag.

I'm in the same minority. I simply can't hit them and the frustration impacts the rest of my game.

Today was a perfect example. I brought a Cobra 460cc to the course and struggled with it for 5 holes. The opening tee shot wasn't awful but it was high on the clubface and felt weak, failing to clear a bunker that I should have no trouble with. On #2 I had my standard miss with the clown shoe drivers, a spinny block that goes nowhere. And the next tee ball on #4 was the typical adjustment to that type of miss, a wicked pull. Number 5 meant the return of the spinny block. Finally I wised up to a 3 wood on #6, a gorgeous draw down the center and plenty long. It was like a jump start to the round. I hit a 60 degree wedge to 8 feet. The next hole was a 192 yard par 3 and I hit my 24 degree hybrid to 15 feet. That may sound irrelevant but I can almost guarantee I never hit that shot if I had continued with the driver and the frustration on the previous hole. On the next 4 tee shots I laced a 13 degree 3 wood low and straight every time, including 257 on #9 and 265 on #12. Those are big numbers for me, with any club. Admittedly the 265 was down a small slope the final 20 yards. I was even par from 6-12 and rightfully it should have been -1 or -2. I can get underneath the smaller clubheads and aggressively turn them right to left. That's the difference. I watch young guys who have no trouble drawing the clown shoe clubs. It strikes me as inconceivable. My left wrist gets stuck waiting for the lunch box to catch up and inevitably I shove it high right with sidespin. I've tried draw biased clubs and nothing changes. Fitting was a joke, once I finally surrendered to that garbage route. I was lucky to retrieve my investment on ebay. The only semi-shoe driver I've had any degree of success with is a 983K, but even that is occasional, and no better distance than the 3 or 3+. As a teenager with the smaller persimmon drivers I could pick a target in the right center of the hole, image a powerful draw, and pull it off. That's been long lost with the modern junk. I stand there looking at a bucket that seemingly has no relationship to the game of golf, fidget with my hands and feet, and hope somehow it's a decent result. With the 3 and 3+ it feels like home again, albeit decades later and not as naturally strong, but aim and fire. I'm going to search for a smaller headed driver along the same lines. And perhaps a Tour Edge Exotics 3 or 3+ for a few extra yards.

[Shanks A Million]

I'm in the same minority. I simply can't hit them and the frustration impacts the rest of my game.

I think, after reading your posts, that the driver problems are all in your head. I used to be the same way about fairway woods, and refused to use them. All I could do was sclaff, thin, and top them. My "good" 3 wood was a 150 yard carry with about another 100 yards of roll.

One day, I had enough. I said to myself, "you can hit your driver off the ground, and off the tee, but you can't hit your fairway woods any way. Why?" So I grabbed an older 3 and 5 wood, the MacGreggor MacOnes. They were more like small drivers than fairway woods, a rounded bottom, tall face, etc. I teed up some balls, and hit them pretty well, but not great. So, I told myself, "Ok, this is a driver." I smashed it. All I had to do was picture that I was hitting a driver, and not a 3 wood, and I was fine. I then took it off the tee. I said, "ok, same swing." I swung exactly like I had been, and crushed it. I haven't had problems with fairway woods since.

[HoosierGolfer]

you've played 3 times in 7 years, once this year and you shot a 76? I'm sorry but there is no way I can believe that.

Must have been a nine hole round.

[Gordon McTavish]

Nope, just smack it right on the center and that should work. I actually think the old persimmon fairways are easier to hit because they have shorter, stiffer shafts.

Interesting comment, and I might have to investigate further since my results with the 909D2 generally contradicted my usual miss to the right.

My efforts with a Ping G15 last year resulted in "high and right" every time!

[Shanks A Million]

Interesting comment, and I might have to investigate further since my results with the 909D2 generally contradicted my usual miss to the right.

The pen is mightier than the sword, right? Well the brain controls the muscles. Same deal.

[rjdunne]

Funny - I was thinking the same thing at the range. I play a DeepRed Wilson driver which I thought was oversized at the time of purchase but the guy in the next bay had some club resembling a stop sign.

That said, my 65 year old dad still uses an old driver from the 1970s - with a wooden club head - and can still outdrive me :) He reckons in the amateur game, that the smaller heavier head promotes a better swing rhythm.

With the new club heads, I wonder when the oversize club head size is going to start affecting aerodynamics. After all, you're forcing a large flat club face through the down swing at a pace!

[pandp]

you've played 3 times in 7 years, once this year and you shot a 76? I'm sorry but there is no way I can believe that.

Must have been a nine hole round.

This is exactly why I will go back to lurking here; pathetic people like the posters quoted above. Why in the hell would I lie about a score on a golf forum? What could I possibly gain from that? The fact that you find an incredibly mediocre 76 unbelievable, simply because I haven't played consistently, speaks volumes about your game and ability.

Obviously you're somewhere between mediocre and awful when it comes to golf. You're the guy that reads every tip, every magazine, draws on his glove, ensures his V is pointing here and lays clubs on the ground pointing all directions and I really need to keep my right elbow from....blah blah. You're the completely unnatural swing-thought guy that will never be better than an 8 handicap. I'm naturally a good ball striker; a lot of people are. Believe it or not, there are people who are capable of taking time off and shooting a decent score I'm sorry if that angers you. It doesn't matter how much time I take off, within 1 small bucket of balls I can be hitting the ball well again. And guess what swing thoughts I have? None. That's right. My father got me into golf my junior year in high school. I quit baseball to pursue golf and by golf season my senior year I was the #2 man. I went to state as an individual in 1997. Isn't that crazy? Can you imagine having a natural athletic ability? I am not claiming that the golf swing is natural and I am not claiming the first time I picked up a 9 iron I started stroking 165 yard lasers, but an athletic ability certainly helped. Now I'm sure you will take it to the extreme and say things like "why aren't you pro if it's so easy" and some other foreseeable idiocy. I'm not claiming I can go out and shoot under par relying strictly on athletic ability and not practicing. I had to work on my short game or my scores were mediocre (like a 76), just like everyone else that plays the game. I didn't have to work as hard as most on woods or irons. When I had more time to focus on chipping and putting, sure I shot under par quite frequently. I could have been in the red a few weeks ago when I shot that 76 if my short game would have been there at all. But I agree, having two eagle putts and 4-5 birdie putts and still shooting +5 on a course I have played more than 100 times is pretty unbelievable… I'm sure this comes off as arrogant, but I really don’t care. It’s the truth and you can believe it or not. It’s the internet and I couldn’t care less. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. I'm going to log off here knowing that I can beat walk18 and Hoosier 10 times out of 10 on any course -without touching a club for a year. Get over it and enjoy your time on this forum. You should have jobs here working to verify scores and judging player ability and integrity.

[walk18]

Yeah that didn't come across as arrogant. No, not at all.

[sean_miller]

Yeah that didn't come across as arrogant. No, not at all.

It didn't sound like a lot of things; arrogant, defensive, standoffish, obssessive compulsive. FWIW, this post, like yours, contains no sarcasm.