Project X Flighted shafts.

[Clandestine]

Hi,

I had a fitting for some Razr X Forged clubs yesterday and was curious about the shaft weights. The guy has ordered me the Project X 5.0's, but a little research has shown that these are the lightest on offer for the Forged clubs (Callaway's website).

He didn't do a swing speed test and was judging the required shaft by how far I was hitting the ball, I assume at least. My distances are:

PW: 130
9: 140
8: 150
7: 160
6: 170

I'm probably worrying about nothing, but people with similar distances seem to be going for the 5.5 rather than the 5.0. What are the real term benefits/disadvantages between the two shaft weights? As in will I be likely to fade/draw the ball more with the 5.0, will the ball flight be higher etc. The Royal Precision site recommended that I go for the Dynamic Gold XP S 300.

Cheers in advance,

Matt.

[hanalei]

Just my Analytical 2 cents... your over thinking steel

TG's are manufactured to an amazing standard, no idea what project x does...

When changing my grips an annoying thing i like to do with TG's is run a rag along the length of the club without the grip off.... It creates the most high pitched chalk board scratch sound that i love... Sound is being transmitted harmoniously and evenly...like a crystal wine glass, try it some time. Cheap shafts dont do that (in grip changing). Other then that its all about determining the minute and insignificant 0.0001 differences in manufacturing that make advertisers claim it will change your game...

Once again my 2 cents, with 4 Guiness opinion....

[Clandestine]

Cheers for the input. However, this is the first non game improving iron that i've purchased and I have no intention of changing it for years, so I'd quite like to make sure it's my "perfect" fit from the off.

[xxsoultonesxx]

Originally Posted by Clandestine

He didn't do a swing speed test and was judging the required shaft by how far I was hitting the ball, I assume at least. My distances are:

PW: 130

9: 140

8: 150

7: 160

6: 170

I'm probably worrying about nothing, but people with similar distances seem to be going for the 5.5 rather than the 5.0. What are the real term benefits/disadvantages between the two shaft weights? As in will I be likely to fade/draw the ball more with the 5.0, will the ball flight be higher etc. The Royal Precision site recommended that I go for the Dynamic Gold XP S 300.

Cheers in advance,

Matt.

You need a swing speed test.

[szaino]

Based upon your distance numbers, I would think that your swing is better matched for 5.5 or 6.0.

Having said that, I would highly recommend the Dynamic Gold in an S100 or S300. No need to spend the extra money for the Rifles, unless money is no object and your handicap is <1.

A 16 handicap is not going to gain any benefit or see any difference from a Rifle compared to the Dynamic Gold. In fact more PGA tour pros are using the Dynamic Gold than any other iron shaft by a long shot.

[WUTiger]

A swing-speed test would have been nice.

Note, however, that PX shafts tend to rate quite stiff compared to other shafts in a given "flex" rating (R or S). One way of comparing shafts across product lines is the FCM (frequency coefficient matching) measurement.

Some comparisons (borrowed from a Sand Trap table posted earlier this month; I'll post link to full table - source GolfWRX.com - later if I can find it):

Shaft	Rating	FCM
PX 5.0*	Regular	5.5
PX 5.5	R-S	6.0
PX 5.0 hardstep	R-S	5.9
PX 6.0	Stiff	6.5
DG R300	Regular	4.8
DG S300	Stiff	5.8
KBS Tour R	Regular	5.0
KBS Tour S	Stiff	6.0

You could consider DG S300 if you want to keep the ball lower. Or, if you like the flighting on the PX shafts, you might hardstep them (you'd only have to buy one more shaft). If you go with DG, you could probably get some money back by selling the PX pullouts.

PX 6.0 evidently is quite stiff. Lots irons on Callaway-Preowned are shafted in PX 6.0,

*Note: You should contact someone who's an expert on shafts to make sure the FCM rating on all PX 5.0 (plain, rifle, or rifle-flighted) are the same.

[Bullitt5339]

I was hitting DG S300's and PX 6.0 Flighted side by side on the driving range yesterday.  Hitting a 9 iron with the S300, my shots were all low fades, with the PX 6.0 Flighted, they were consistent high baby draws.  I decided on the PX's, but I am going with the 5.5's and my distances are the same as yours.

[szaino]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

I was hitting DG S300's and PX 6.0 Flighted side by side on the driving range yesterday.  Hitting a 9 iron with the S300, my shots were all low fades, with the PX 6.0 Flighted, they were consistent high baby draws.  I decided on the PX's, but I am going with the 5.5's and my distances are the same as yours.

What model iron were you hitting with each club? Was it the same?

Generally, all things being equal, a stiffer shaft and/or higher kick point would tend to make your shot go right and lower. Conversely, again all other factors being equal, a more flexible shaft with a lower kick point, would tend to flight the ball higher and make it easier to hit a draw.

So your results are a little surprising. The 6.0 is virtually the same stiffness as the S300. And, the 6.0 flighted have what is called a variable kick point depending on the iron. shorter irons have actually a higher KP to flight the ball lower as compared to the longer irons like a 4 iron where they move the KP down to allow a higher flight.

The S300 all have a consistent high KP for a low trajectory.

So if you were hitting a 5 Iron and got those results I could understand it, but with a 9 iron it seems that the shafts wouldn't, by themselves, produce your results.

[Fozcycle]

My Swing Speed is between 87 - 90 mph and I was recommended the Project X 5.0 for my Driver and irons by my golfTec Instructor.

My 6 iron is 145 - 155

My 7 iron is 135 - 145

I don't see how you can use the X 5.0 if your getting 170 from your 6 iron, unless your 6 iron is actually a 5......check your lofts.

My 6 is at 27* and my 7 is at 31*.

[Bullitt5339]

Yes, they were both Callaway X-Forged.  Decent irons, nice feel, but I'm going to stick with my MP 57's for a long time.  I just want a higher ball flight now that my swing speed has slowed way down, so the S300's have to go.  I can't even get my 6 iron up in the air with my current swing speed.

Originally Posted by szaino

What model iron were you hitting with each club? Was it the same?

Generally, all things being equal, a stiffer shaft and/or higher kick point would tend to make your shot go right and lower. Conversely, again all other factors being equal, a more flexible shaft with a lower kick point, would tend to flight the ball higher and make it easier to hit a draw.

So your results are a little surprising. The 6.0 is virtually the same stiffness as the S300. And, the 6.0 flighted have what is called a variable kick point depending on the iron. shorter irons have actually a higher KP to flight the ball lower as compared to the longer irons like a 4 iron where they move the KP down to allow a higher flight.

The S300 all have a consistent high KP for a low trajectory.

So if you were hitting a 5 Iron and got those results I could understand it, but with a 9 iron it seems that the shafts wouldn't, by themselves, produce your results.

[jakester]

I made the mistake, last year, of going from Project x 5.0 to KBS stiff. I knew in my head I shouldn't have but was talked into it

based on the fact I hit my six iron 175. That isn't the ONLY thing you should be basing your choice on.

The Project X 5.0 are greatv shafts... even when my driver swing speed was up there 115 and I used a stiff driver shaft I still used the PX 5.0 iron shafts. I've recently sold my set of Razr X Tour with the KBS shafts and am going back to the Project X 5.0.

The KBS shafts were eventually softstepped but still wasn't to my liking. I went from 175-178 with my 6 iron to about 160 with stiffer shafts. The shot dispersion was tight, but at my age, I will be losing distance soon enough.

What you should do is go to a shop that will set up the club for you with the PX 5.0 shaft in it and 5.5 and hit them on a simulator.

If you get the PX 5.5 and then dn't like them you can have the pro shop soft step them once or twice...

[jonwil]

Jakester,

Were your 5.0 shafts the 'Flighted' or the regular Project X?

[WUTiger]

Quote:

What model iron were you hitting with each club? Was it the same?

Generally, all things being equal, a stiffer shaft and/or higher kick point would tend to make your shot go right and lower. Conversely, again all other factors being equal, a more flexible shaft with a lower kick point, would tend to flight the ball higher and make it easier to hit a draw.

So your results are a little surprising. The 6.0 is virtually the same stiffness as the S300. And, the 6.0 flighted have what is called a variable kick point depending on the iron. shorter irons have actually a higher KP to flight the ball lower as compared to the longer irons like a 4 iron where they move the KP down to allow a higher flight.

The S300 all have a consistent high KP for a low trajectory.

So if you were hitting a 5 Iron and got those results I could understand it, but with a 9 iron it seems that the shafts wouldn't, by themselves, produce your results.

This updated GolfWRX.com FCM table - courtesy of Howard Jones, suggests the PX 6.0 (FCM 6.5) is a half-flex stiffer than the S300 (FCM 5.8). In golf shops, I see a lot of 6.0 pullouts for sale, and there's always plenty of irons for sale on Callaway Pre-O with 6.0 shafts.

Otherwise, sziano nails it on his analysis. Especially good job of explaining flighted shafts.

[Bullitt5339]

I was mistaken, went back today to make sure of what I was hitting, and they were PX 6.0HL's, not flighted.  My mistake.

[WUTiger]

Clandestine,

Rallph Maltby's GolfWorks operation, besides its MPF for iron heads, puts out a playability rating for different shafts.

The PX 5.0 is rated as 3B2M . Same rating as PX 5.0 Flighted, Rifle 5.0, and Rifle 5.0 Flighted

3: 150 yd. iron = 6i/ Driver = 82-93 MPH ( Flex code)

B: Both control and distance sought

2: medium trajectory

M: no hook or slice correction

PX 6.0 and Rifle 6.0 are rated as 4B1M. (150 yd. 7i, Driver 94-105 MPH // Low trajectory)

PX 6.0 Flighted and Tour Rifle 6.0 Flighted are rated as 4B2M. (150 yd. 7i, Driver 94-105 MPH // medium trajectory)

If you have a 150 yd. 8i, and Driver -106 MPH+, you might look at the 6.5 shafts. But, make sure you really have this distance,, because the PX / Rifle family are stiffer than the average "Stiff" shafts. Only your launch monitor knows for sure (assuming it's properly calibrated)

Whatever works... just some thoughts.

[szaino]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

I was mistaken, went back today to make sure of what I was hitting, and they were PX 6.0HL's, not flighted.  My mistake.

The HL stands for "high launch" shaft and this now explains the results that you got. Good thing you double checked, make sure the order was for the proper HL shaft if that is what you want.

[Sacman]

I am an 8 handicap and my next irons will be the MP-53. I have struggled with this decision myself. Then I hit the Project X and S300. I felt like I was hitting rocks with the Project X. While the S300 was like hitting a pure shot over and over again. It's just my opinion but project x shafts are overrated. You have to hit them absolutely pure every time to get a good shot. I know that's not going to happen so forgiveness is always welcome.

[jakester]

Originally Posted by jonwil

Jakester,

Were your 5.0 shafts the 'Flighted' or the regular Project X?

My X 20 Tours were HL high launch... my new set of Razr X tours are flighted, which I believe are similar...