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dkling8

Dynamic Loft - Push Draw vs. Straight Draw

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I've been wondering about the difference between the two common ways to play a draw.

Shot A (push draw): Square alignment. My swing path is 4* open to target, and clubface is 2* closed to path.

Shot B (straight draw): Alignment is 4* closed to target. I swing straight along my feet, and clubface is 2* closed to path.

Are launch conditions the same? Are the ball flights identical? In both cases I'm swinging 4* right of target with a clubface thats 2* open to target, but are there other factors involved that could make these shots different?

In this video starting around 9:30, Grant says that to hit a high shot, he puts the ball a bit forward and hits a push draw. He claims that because face is open to target, you're adding dynamic loft, and the ball will go higher. I was thinking that since the clubface is closed to the path, you're actually reducing dynamic loft. That's what made me wonder about the difference between Shot A and Shot B? Thoughts?

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I think shot b will go lower and probably run a bit more. Club face will probably be delivered with less loft.
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Originally Posted by dkling8

I've been wondering about the difference between the two common ways to play a draw.

Shot A (push draw): Square alignment. My swing path is 4* open to target, and clubface is 2* closed to path.

Shot B (straight draw): Alignment is 4* closed to target. I swing straight along my feet, and clubface is 2* closed to path.

Are launch conditions the same? Are the ball flights identical? In both cases I'm swinging 4* right of target with a clubface thats 2* open to target, but are there other factors involved that could make these shots different?

In this video starting around 9:30, Grant says that to hit a high shot, he puts the ball a bit forward and hits a push draw. He claims that because face is open to target, you're adding dynamic loft, and the ball will go higher. I was thinking that since the clubface is closed to the path, you're actually reducing dynamic loft. That's what made me wonder about the difference between Shot A and Shot B? Thoughts?

You're hitting the same shot, just the second one you've aimed slightly to the left (for a right hander). They're both push draws.

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Originally Posted by billchao

You're hitting the same shot, just the second one you've aimed slightly to the left (for a right hander). They're both push draws.

No he had it right.  Option B is a straight draw.  And it's playable because he realigned himself to the right to allow for it.

Erik (and others) like to use the examples of Jack Nicklaus and Lee Trevino who both played push fades.  They start right (of feet alignment) and curve right of that, but because both of them are aligned enough left, they work just fine.

As far as an answer to the OP's question ... His answer seems reasonable.  When things are close like that, I like to extrapolate to the extremes to look for an answer.  The ugliest pull-hooks are always, always low, and the ugliest push-slices are always, always high, so it stands to reason (to me) that a push draw will go a little higher than a straight draw.

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Shouldn't B result in a push draw?

It will start right of the target because that is the way he aligned. In relation to his stance, it will be a straight draw.

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I thought with a push draw the face would be closed relative to the path.....the face dictates the starting direction and path dictates curve?

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Both shots start right then draw back to the target, so technically they are the same. Shot B is a pull draw because the path is square (in-square-in) and the face is closed. If shot B was a straight draw you would swing in-to-out with your feet and the club face square to the target.

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Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

Both shots start right then draw back to the target, so technically they are the same. Shot B is a pull draw because the path is square (in-square-in) and the face is closed. If shot B was a straight draw you would swing in-to-out with your feet and the club face square to the target.

Actually, you're correct, I made a mistake. The thread title should be "Push Draw vs. Pull Draw" since shot B will start to the left of your alignment. Maybe a mod can change the title/post.

I agree that the flights should be the same in a perfect world, but maybe our tendencies are different when we try to hit Shot A vs. Shot B? For example, maybe the push draw will go higher than the pull draw due to the feeling of coming more from the inside, possibly shallowing out the angle of attack. I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

Both shots start right then draw back to the target, so technically they are the same. Shot B is a pull draw because the path is square (in-square-in) and the face is closed. If shot B was a straight draw you would swing in-to-out with your feet and the club face square to the target.

Originally Posted by dkling8

Actually, you're correct, I made a mistake. The thread title should be "Push Draw vs. Pull Draw" since shot B will start to the left of your alignment. Maybe a mod can change the title/post.

I agree that the flights should be the same in a perfect world, but maybe our tendencies are different when we try to hit Shot A vs. Shot B? For example, maybe the push draw will go higher than the pull draw due to the feeling of coming more from the inside, possibly shallowing out the angle of attack. I'm not sure.

Oh, sorry ... I should read more carefully.  You guys got it right here.

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No he had it right.  Option B is a straight draw.  And it's playable because he realigned himself to the right to allow for it.

You're right (not counting the whole pull-draw part). I see where I made the mistake now, thanks.

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Originally Posted by billchao

You're right (not counting the whole pull-draw part). I see where I made the mistake now, thanks.

Haha, yes.  I'm right-er than you were, but still got it wrong.

That's OK, we've got it straightened out now. ;)  (Thanks to everythinggolf and the OP)

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Haha, yes.  I'm right-er than you were, but still got it wrong.  :beer: That's OK, we've got it straightened out now. ;)  (Thanks to everythinggolf and the OP)

Believe it or not, somehow I read that as 4° open to the target and swinging along the original target line, WTF? Apparently my reading comprehension needs as much work as my golf swing :-D

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