Is it the equipment or the money?

**GaijinGolfer** · June 28, 2008

This is a continuation of the discussion that was started in the, "Titleist" thread about whether the best players in the world play with a particular brand of equipment because its the best or because they get paid a lot of money to do so.
Heres my take: all of the major golf companies make good products. I personally think that the reason why Tiger plays Nike is because Nike pays him an insane amount of money to do, not because Nike is so vastly superior to anything else on the market.
Thats not to say that Nike doesnt make good stuff, they do. However, I think that Tiger, just like anyone else, would play with any brand of equipment if the price were right.

**teal** · June 28, 2008

I don't know the answer but that won't keep me from speculating!

In the Tiger/Nike case - I believe Tiger also saw what Nike could so marketing wise. He watched them do it with Jordan as a kid. I can't help but feel like that played a part.

Can the average tour guy use "whatever" and smoke me? Yes.
Can the average top 10 tour guy use "whatever" and stay where they are? I don't know.

The only other thing I can compare it to is my old motocross background. Jeremy McGrath was the Tiger of SX on his Honda (was no secret he ran the 93 frame forever and 97 I believe cylinders) and then he had a falling out and switched brands - struggled till the end of his career. (Yamaha was the closest he came to the Honda magic - but Suzuki = mistake for him)

So - that said - I think that most of them play what they feel they can for the most money. I would think that most of them would be willing to move to a different brand if offered more $$ as I don't know if it would affect their game as much. Tiger seems to be so "tuned" to his game that a brand switch (if the actual clubs actually changed - not simply just the logo) might throw him off just a tad. (until he learned to hit whatever it was)

I believe though in the end Tiger went Nike more for the upside to their marketing department and ability. He let the clubs catch up to him then, IIRC Phil made a comment once that Tiger played inferior equipment. Was he with Nike then?

**odstore** · June 28, 2008

Someone already mentioned this in the titleist thread but whoever has the money to pay tiger also has the money to make a unique set of clubs that meet tiger's every desire. The manufacturer is kind of irrelevant in many cases because pro's know exactly what they want and sponsors make it for them. Notice how the only thing that you can go out and buy that tiger uses are the balls, and before this year that wasn't even the case.

**Franco!** · June 28, 2008

I don't know the answer but that won't keep me from speculating!

He's been with Nike his whole career.

He was using steel shafted woods and was still smoking people out there.

**GaijinGolfer** · June 28, 2008

He's been with Nike his whole career.

Did he play Titleist at one time?

Personally, I think Tiger could win with anything. You could give him a set of clubs you bought at Wal-Mart and a box of generic golfballs and I think he would still win. I think that probably both Nike and Tiger saw what they could accomplish together. Tiger looked at what Nike could do in terms of promoting him and Nike look at what Tiger could do for their image and for their sales. Before Tiger came along, Nike was pretty much non-existent in the golf industry. More power to 'em, but no matter how many times Tiger wins with Nike equipment, its never going to convince me that Nike is the best. Thats not to say that I would never switch to Nike (or any other brand), but I would have to try out a set of Nike clubs for myself and see if they feel the best to me.

**teal** · June 28, 2008

I could swear that I saw him swinging a Titleist driver in his first year or two on tour. Thought I saw it in the Tiger Woods DVD pack they sell at Dicks. I got it for my son and kinda "watched" it with him whilst reading a book so I could have been mistaken.

**golf_junkie27** · June 28, 2008

Tiger has played with almost every piece of equipment: Cobra, Titleist, Mizuno, Nike, Taylormade, Callaway.

What happens, in the case of many professionals, is that the engineers and designers make whatever they need. They may make some iron with a little more muscleback, square lines, a little more round on the toe, etc. Same things with driver: a deeper face, a perfect combination of shaft and clubhead. The list goes on and on.

And that's the greatest difference. Equipment made to their exact specifications, down to the grinds of the clubface. Sure, money makes a difference; see Phil Mickelson switching from Titleist to Callaway before the Ryder Cup. However, at the end of the day, it's still the player. If you can't provide the right equipment, no amount of money is going to make him stay. Golf companies, for the most part, get this, right.

**DDBowdoin** · June 28, 2008

yeah... he used Titleist... in his documentry dvd series they mention how much animosity there was on tour towards him because of the "massive" deal Titleist gave him

back to brand power I'm suprised Titleist doesnt spend more money to get some bigger names on their clubs, Scott and Stricker and then they drop from there

Mizuno as well, Luke Donald... can you say overrated?

**golf_junkie27** · June 28, 2008

He's been with Nike his whole career.

That is not true. He used numerous brands of equipment before signing with Nike.

***iacas*** · June 28, 2008

back to brand power I'm suprised Titleist doesnt spend more money to get some bigger names on their clubs, Scott and Stricker and then they drop from there

Yeah, that Zach Johnson guy, what a hack.

Titleist has a lot of guys on staff. And they have a lot of guys playing their golf ball that aren't full-line players, too. They make a lot of money with their golf balls.

**DDBowdoin** · June 28, 2008

Yeah, that Zach Johnson guy, what a hack.

yeah... forgot about that guy, fluke...

balls are a different thing to me, everyone and their mother plays a prov on tour a lot, TONS! of money my friend gets brand new dozens for 19.99, he also happens to work in their ball plant

**GaijinGolfer** · June 28, 2008

back to brand power I'm suprised Titleist doesnt spend more money to get some bigger names on their clubs, Scott and Stricker and then they drop from there

Perhaps those companies dont feel that they need a star to promote their products.

Take Titleist for example, the name pretty much sells itself. Even people who dont know all that much about golf know that Titleist makes some of the finest golf equipment money can buy. Ive had times where Ive been out and about with a Titleist hat on and Ive had complete strangers stop me and ask me if I play Titelist equipment. Next thing you know, Im in a 20 minute conversation about how nice Titleist equipment is. I think thats a large part of why Nike is willing to pay Tiger so much. It seems like they pretty much came out of nowhere to being one of the premier golf equipment brands. It seems like just about every kid of teenager I see out on the course has either a Nike hat, Nike shirt or plays Nike equipment. Thats marketing for ya!

**teal** · June 28, 2008

I am sure no matter whom he (or any other top 50 Tour guy) goes to the clubs are bespoke. I don't doubt that, but I have never seen anything on the capabilities or differences in maker's factories so I can't say that all of them would be able create EXACTLY what each player wants.

Suzuki is a massive company and they never could build a 250 that suited McGrath like the Honda did so there is the possibility that another company couldn't match what Nike (or whomever) does for Tiger. Look at the speculation about Tiger and back up Scottys. IIRC most said Scotty can't seem to recreate the SC he has been using since forever. (Although I read that given the time line - the SC Tiger uses would more than likely have been made in the Bettinardi shop - since then they haven't been able to recreate it in Titleist's place)

**golf_junkie27** · June 28, 2008

I am sure no matter whom he (or any other top 50 Tour guy) goes to the clubs are bespoke. I don't doubt that, but I have never seen anything on the capabilities or differences in maker's factories so I can't say that all of them would be able create EXACTLY what each player wants.

I believe that in Golf many places use the same foundry to create custom clubs. Also, many big name fitters create clubs for various pros. They'll just have the equipment sent over and the magic is created. Unlike cars/bikes, most golf companies list the type of steel that is being used, whether it is forged or cast, the type of grooves, etc.

Aren't bicycle parts and such exclusive to companies? Aren't there patents on such equipment that don't allow for replication? I'm sure there is some stuff in golf, like balls, that have exclusivity or proprietory patents.

**michaeljames92** · June 28, 2008

In tiger's book "how i play golf" it has a pic of his equipment(around year 2000). It had a titleist driver, titleist 3 wood, titleist 2-pw blades, cameron putter and cleveland wedges. So I'm guessing he switched to nike not long after that.

**fusioncal** · June 28, 2008

Ive had times where Ive been out and about with a Titleist hat on and Ive had complete strangers stop me and ask me if I play Titelist equipment. Next thing you know, Im in a 20 minute conversation about how nice Titleist equipment is.

You just can't have someone stop you asking if you play Nike's clubs while you're wearing Nike's swoosh logo cap.

Honestly, I feel a bit proud using golf manufacturer's brand accessories, such as hat for instance but not deliberately in public places though. Wearing such niche brands simply states out loud, "I'm a golfer." And those who also a golfer would probably stop you the same way that the stranger did. On the other side if you were wearing Nike, most people would probably only recognize it as a manufacturer of sports equipments in general, but that's it. It is also one of the reasons that I would never own Nike clubs, ever. And I agree with you that Nike has a lot to catch up with the long existing brands such as Titleist, TaylorMade, Mizuno, Callaway, etc. Edit: I think Tiger used Mizuno during his college golf, then switched to Titleist. When he got signed by Nike, he specifically requested a set of blades which look and perform the same as his previous iron sets. Then the Nike Blades was born.

**TinCupTampa** · June 28, 2008

You just can't have someone stop you asking if you play Nike's clubs while you're wearing Nike's swoosh logo cap.

Im pretty sure you are correct... would explain why the Nike rep told me that the clubs he uses are Mizuno's with a Nike stamp.

**michaeljames92** · June 28, 2008

Perhaps those companies dont feel that they need a star to promote their products.

Guess what? Half of my golf clothing is Nike.

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