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"Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 
Discuss "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante here.
post #2 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

The unfortunate title prevented me from reading it until recommendations by others made it hard to ignore.

Clarity, brevity, truth. Its impact on my swing has been second only to Hogan's Five Fundamentals.
post #3 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

The book is pretty good. A newer book by VJ Trilio is out that discusses some of the same concepts.
post #4 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

I was very pleased with this book. The section on COAM was eye-opening, and the rest of the book was clearly and concisely written. Although I was initially put off by the title, my iron play has improved greatly after integrating Dante's recommendations into my swing.
post #5 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

What are the "Magic Moves"?
post #6 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

It wouldn't make sense if I posted them, but they relate to the backswing, top, downswing, and impact. The book also covers details on the grip, stance, etc...

You can read an abridged version of the book here: http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/index.html

This guy also sells the book, or his own version of it which I don't know if I would recommend. I bought mine from Amazon for about $7
post #7 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
Discuss "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante here.
"Four Magic Moves" teaches the early backward wrist break - when I first tried this so called "magic move" I said "you gotta be kidding me".

I gotta tell ya, after I kept practicing this one early move in the golf swing the golf club began to feel much lighter as I swung...could it be that I am now swinging on plane?

Anyway, this one move made an incredible difference in my golf swing.

If you're gonna try this golf system out make sure you practice the moves over and over and let them sink in...your first inclination (like mine) will probably be to discard it as rubbish...stay with it and you may be in for a pleasant surprise.

--John
post #8 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

This seems like a conventional swing. The only major difference is the early wrist break. It doesn't seem revolutionary. The other fundamentals are the seem.

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/golf-backswing2.html

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/downswing2.html

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/downswing3.html

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/downswing4.html

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/golf...wthrough2.html
post #9 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by stevestrike View Post
I was very pleased with this book. The section on COAM was eye-opening, and the rest of the book was clearly and concisely written. Although I was initially put off by the title, my iron play has improved greatly after integrating Dante's recommendations into my swing.
Yes, Four Magic Moves by Joe Dante is one of the few golf instructional books out there that give justice to COAM (Conservation Of Angular Momentum) and the importance of this principal in the golf swing.

I was recently discussing the golf swing with a physics professor and he said there are really only 2 physical principals that impact the golf swing (he denoted gravity as being negligible in the golf swing)... those 2 principals being COAM and Torque.

COAM being the conservation of angular momentum...the principal that states angular momentum of an object remains constant as long as no external force or moment acts on that object.

If the object (club head) is brought closer to the axis (formed by the golfer's stable spine), it speeds up. If the club head is moved further out, it slows down. In a golf swing, as the player rotates the club, the hands move farther from the body or axis and slow down. This reduction in momentum feeds into the much lighter club and increases the speed of the club head in the last part of the stroke, in a whiplash type of effect, increasing the force of impact on the ball.

The other principal being Torque:
Torque = F X L
"F" being Force and "L" being length of the lever in our case the length of the golf club shaft.

F or Force can be further broken down using Newton's equation of Force=ma (mass X acceleration)

So we now have Torque = mass x acceleration x length

Mass being the mass of the clubhead, acceleration being the acceleration of the clubhead.

It is Torque or the twisting action of the golf club that gives real leverage in the golf swing.

Hit 'em Long & Straight!

--John
post #10 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Maybe I need to look into his definition/discussion a bit more, but there is not any conservation of angular momentum of the clubhead in a full golf swing. Your body acts like an engine to supply external torque to accelerate the club. COAM is for a free falling pendulum.

I haven't seen his argument though...maybe he has some qualitative aspects correct.
post #11 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Sorry but f = ma and it doesn't matter whether the acceleration is provided by gravity, or your core muscles.
post #12 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

can you please clear up for me how torque = leverage ? I thought these are totally independant of each other and the only way to supply more power is by either more torque or more leverage ?

I did'nt go to school long enough for the modern golf swing.
post #13 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by GolferDot View Post
can you please clear up for me how torque = leverage ? I thought these are totally independant of each other and the only way to supply more power is by either more torque or more leverage ?

I did'nt go to school long enough for the modern golf swing.
Leverage is a function of Torque. The longer the lever (i.e. the club shaft), the more leverage hence more Torque - this is why longer clubs hit the golf ball further than the shorter ones.

Torque can be thought of as the twisting action. If you were to remove a rusty lug nut from your car, the longer the wrench (lever) - the more leverage you have which yields more Torque being applied to the rusty nut.

Remember the formula for Torque = F x L where "L" is the length of the lever and "F" is Force...so as you can see from the equation for Torque, Leverage is a function of Torque.

The trick to effortless power in your golf swing is to allow these Forces to work in harmony. You must allow time in your golf swing for Torque and Angular Momentum to develop and deliver the most power at the right moment...the moment of impact.

Don't rush the golf swing - let it happen!

This is why Pros golf swings look so effortless...
post #14 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by JackieTreehorn View Post
Maybe I need to look into his definition/discussion a bit more, but there is not any conservation of angular momentum of the clubhead in a full golf swing. Your body acts like an engine to supply external torque to accelerate the club. COAM is for a free falling pendulum.

I haven't seen his argument though...maybe he has some qualitative aspects correct.
Yes, your body is the engine and the effort the golfer expends to swing the golf club is the "F" (Force) in our Torque equation; T = F x L (T=Torque,F=Force,L=Length of lever).

Now, the secret is to incorporate the late hit into the downswing because a beautiful happens, the late hit in the golfer's downswing has a nice way of actually lengthening the "L" or length of lever in our Torque equation without the golfer having to expend any more effort (or Force)...so you're essentially increasing the Torque exponentially without having to increase Force (aka: swing harder)...

This is the secret to an effortless golf swing!
post #15 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by lynchjo View Post
Yes, Four Magic Moves by Joe Dante is one of the few golf instructional books out there that give justice to COAM (Conservation Of Angular Momentum) and the importance of this principal in the golf swing.

I was recently discussing the golf swing with a physics professor and he said there are really only 2 physical principals that impact the golf swing (he denoted gravity as being negligible in the golf swing)... those 2 principals being COAM and Torque.

COAM being the conservation of angular momentum...the principal that states angular momentum of an object remains constant as long as no external force or moment acts on that object.

If the object (club head) is brought closer to the axis (formed by the golfer's stable spine), it speeds up. If the club head is moved further out, it slows down. In a golf swing, as the player rotates the club, the hands move farther from the body or axis and slow down. This reduction in momentum feeds into the much lighter club and increases the speed of the club head in the last part of the stroke, in a whiplash type of effect, increasing the force of impact on the ball.

The other principal being Torque:
Torque = F X L
"F" being Force and "L" being length of the lever in our case the length of the golf club shaft.

F or Force can be further broken down using Newton's equation of Force=ma (mass X acceleration)

So we now have Torque = mass x acceleration x length

Mass being the mass of the clubhead, acceleration being the acceleration of the clubhead.

It is Torque or the twisting action of the golf club that gives real leverage in the golf swing.

Hit 'em Long & Straight!

--John
I think you are mistaken with your thoughts on which is torque and which is force.

Torque = body uncoiling
leverage = length of club

so it is not the twisting action that gives leverage it is the length of the club.

you mention mass of the clubhead also, if you increase the mass of the clubhead and apply the same torque would the speed not then decrease ?

I also personally think the phenomaneon of the pro golfer looking like he is swinging easy is the fact that there is very little wasted effort and the understanding that power is generated from gradually from the start of the downswing not the start of the backswing.
post #16 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by GolferDot View Post
I think you are mistaken with your thoughts on which is torque and which is force.

Torque = body uncoiling
leverage = length of club

so it is not the twisting action that gives leverage it is the length of the club.

you mention mass of the clubhead also, if you increase the mass of the clubhead and apply the same torque would the speed not then decrease ?

I also personally think the phenomaneon of the pro golfer looking like he is swinging easy is the fact that there is very little wasted effort and the understanding that power is generated from gradually from the start of the downswing not the start of the backswing.
I'm simply using Newton's Law on Force, F=ma (Force = mass x acceleration) to further illustrate the components of Torque... T = FL (Torque = Force x Length).

By substituting Newton's equation on Force (F=ma) to the Torque equation (T=FL), we now have: T=maL (Torque = mass x acceleration x Length)

In the golf swing, "m" is mass of the clubhead, "a" is acceleration of the clubhead, and "L" is length of lever in our case the length of golf club shaft.

The mass of the clubhead and the force supplied by the golfer as he swings the golf club are all factors of Torque.

Believe it or not there are actually times during the golf swing when there is zero Torque on the clubshaft...one time this happens is deep in the downswing when the club is vertical. This only happens if you hold the lag (also known as the late hit).

Right after this "Torque Zero Point" a tremendous amount of energy is transferred to the clubhead resulting in an incredible amount of power delivered to the golf ball at impact.

The reason all this energy is transferred to the clubhead from the hands is due to COAM (Conservation of Angular Momentum)..the hands slow down right before impact delivering the energy to the clubhead.

Watch the pros hands right before impact, they are almost stopped yet the clubhead is whizzing by them...this is due to COAM.

So far maximum power in your golf swing, take advantage of COAM and Torque by building the late hit into your golf swing...this worked for me with tremendous results!

Hit 'em Long and Straight!

--John
post #17 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

torque is not force x length ....... torque is supplyed by the golfer, the golfer gives the rotary force = torque. You do not want torque of the clubshaft at all this is a bad thing, it will take the clubface offline.

Maybe I am mis-interperating what you are saying

although I do not dis-agree with the release being the vital part of the swing, the reasoning you are giving for it there does not make sense. Also I dis-agree with the term "late hit" your not hitting it late you are releasing at the most optimum time.
post #18 of 86

Re: "Four Magic Moves" by Joe Dante

Originally Posted by GolferDot View Post
torque is not force x length ....... torque is supplyed by the golfer, the golfer gives the rotary force = torque. You do not want torque of the clubshaft at all this is a bad thing, it will take the clubface offline.

Maybe I am mis-interperating what you are saying

although I do not dis-agree with the release being the vital part of the swing, the reasoning you are giving for it there does not make sense. Also I dis-agree with the term "late hit" your not hitting it late you are releasing at the most optimum time.
Then maybe what my ol friend Archimedes said is wrong. :)

"The force applied to a lever, multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum, is the torque."

Archimedes once said after he discovered the laws of the lever:
"Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth!"
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