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Lesson Thursday afternoon/Scramble Friday?


TN94z
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I am currently working toward a 2-5 handicap and there are some swing flaws that I am going to see a pro about on Thursday. I am sure that he will have certain things that he will want me to work on before my next lesson.

Friday morning I have a 4-man scramble in which I will be the lowest handicap player on the team. My question is this: If the pro gives me certain things to work on, should I forget about them during the scramble and play normal? Or should I incorporate the changes during the scramble? Does it just matter on how drastic the changes are and how different they will feel to me? I went out yesterday and shot a 75 on a much harder and longer course than what the scramble will be played on...so my current game is working, but I don't want to let the other guys down by tinkering with my swing during a scramble if it is going to hurt us.

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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In general, I don't like playing within a few days of a lesson, as I want to make the time to incorporate the changes. By point of contrast, I had a lesson 10 days ago, and will play tomorrow for the first time since.

But, since you have an important scramble, it's not like rescheduling a casual round with your friends. So play, but my suggestion is to work enough on your changes on Thursday so you can try to use them on Friday. Don't revert during the round - it will be harder to come back to make the changes on Saturday. If you aren't playing your best, well, that's what the scramble format is for. You'll make enough good shots to carry your end of your team.

And above all, and you don't need to be told this, but I'll say it anyway: do not take swing change advice from playing partners. It happens enough in casual rounds, and I wonder how much it will happen in a round where your partners' score depends in part on your performance.

-- Michael | My swing! 

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And above all, and you don't need to be told this, but I'll say it anyway: do not take swing change advice from playing partners. It happens enough in casual rounds, and I wonder how much it will happen in a round where your partners' score depends in part on your performance.

They know me well enough to not say anything. I always try to let those things go in one ear and out the other. Good advice though!

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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Perhaps reschedule the lesson? I don't like the grip it and rip it attitude I get in scrambles when some one else gets one in play. I tend to swing for the fence which allows bad habits back in my swing.

I would reschedule so that you can put in your range time before playing...

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Perhaps reschedule the lesson? I don't like the grip it and rip it attitude I get in scrambles when some one else gets one in play. I tend to swing for the fence which allows bad habits back in my swing.

The problem is that the teacher has like a 3-4 week wait time. I made this appointment 3 weeks ago..I really don't want to reschedule. I think, if the changes aren't too drastic, that I will be okay.

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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The problem is that the teacher has like a 3-4 week wait time. I made this appointment 3 weeks ago..I really don't want to reschedule. I think, if the changes aren't too drastic, that I will be okay.

Yeah, good luck with that - you're a braver man than me. I've had my first lesson ever but I spend every swing on the golf course (and I spent 4+ hours hitting balls on the range) trying to do those things.

If it were as easy to incorporate changes as you seem to think, we'd all be scratch golfers. I think you're gonna have to suck it up and use the scramble as a practice round. You can't "revert" because you'll be wasting the lesson and you can't cement the changes by then, so you're gonna have to perhaps try to do the things the instructor wants you to do as you knock it around the course with perhaps 3/4 swings. You'll probably hit some incredibly terrible shots, but you're gonna have to be okay with that.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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Yeah, good luck with that - you're a braver man than me. I've had my first lesson ever but I spend every swing on the golf course (and I spent 4+ hours hitting balls on the range) trying to do those things.

I never said that incorporating changes would be easy. If I were a 30 handicapper and went and took lessons that completely changed my swing, then yes that would be a drastic and difficult change. I have taken lessons before and actually went and played rounds right after the lesson and didn't have a terrible day...its not like it can't be done. I don't forsee the teacher completely changing my swing in a manner that will just destroy my game for the scramble. Worst case I can use my swing that I have now on Friday, and then start working on his suggestions on saturday. I am getting older but I don't think I will forget what he told me in 2 days.

I don't mind using the scramble as practice time to be honest. The scramble is a charity scramble that we play in every year...there aren't many prizes to be won. So if that is the case then that is the case....no biggie.

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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I never said that incorporating changes would be easy.

Sure you did: "Or should I incorporate the changes during the scramble?"

That implies that you think you can somehow do so ("incorporate the changes") overnight. Unlikely. I've been a 3-ish index for a few years now and even the subtle changes I'm making are going to take weeks to settle in to where I'm comfortable with them and I can repeat them, consistently, with confidence. "Should I use the changes right away?" is golf-speak for "it will be easy" even if you don't literally say the word "easy." Besides, a lot of lessons seem to be about doing drills or exaggerating something in order to generate a new kind of feeling - the kinds of things that don't really involve full golf swings under tournament pressure (i.e. for a score, not necessarily any pressure beyond that). Perhaps your guy's just a "quick fix" kind of guy. If so, I've never seen those types of teachers really improve the quality of their students' play.
I have taken lessons before and actually went and played rounds right after the lesson and didn't have a terrible day...its not like it can't be done.

I am getting older but I don't think I will forget what he told me in 2 days.

You'd be surprised.

Look, I'm not you, I don't know you, and all that jazz, but it seems to me you're either not taking your lessons very seriously OR you're simply content to not get as much out of the lessons as you could. I've never heard or seen a golf instructor say "yeah, take a lesson, continue to use your old swing, and then try out what I tell you a few days later." I've never heard them say "go play a round that matters right after you take a lesson with me." It's just my opinion, but you don't seem to be doing yourself any favors. P.S. Tiger Woods went a year+ (two separate times) incorporating some pretty subtle changes in his swing. You can do it overnight?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Sure you did: "Or should I incorporate the changes during the scramble?"

Wrong. That implies whatever YOU read into it. That was simply asking should I wait to start the changes or start them during the scramble.

"Should I use the changes right away?" is golf-speak for "it will be easy" even if you don't literally say the word "easy."

I could see that, IF I had stated "Should I use the changes right away" which I didn't.

Besides, a lot of lessons seem to be about doing drills or exaggerating something in order to generate a new kind of feeling - the kinds of things that don't really involve full golf swings under tournament pressure (i.e. for a score, not necessarily any pressure beyond that). Perhaps your guy's just a "quick fix" kind of guy. If so, I've never seen those types of teachers really improve the quality of their students' play.

I agree about the drills and exaggeration....basically this whole paragraph is what should have been posted from the beginning in response to my original question.

Ted Butler is the teacher in Memphis, TN. Not a quick fix guy.
You'd be surprised.

Isn't that the truth. I am 31 and it definitely gets harder!!

Look, I'm not you, I don't know you, and all that jazz, but it seems to me you're either not taking your lessons very seriously OR you're simply content to not get as much out of the lessons as you could. I've never heard or seen a golf instructor say "yeah, take a lesson, continue to use your old swing, and then try out what I tell you a few days later." I've never heard them say "go play a round that matters right after you take a lesson with me." It's just my opinion, but you don't seem to be doing yourself any favors.

My next question is where in any of my statements did I say that the teacher told me to do this? I have never been to this teacher as this will be my first lesson. How can you make a statement like "you are not taking your lessons seriously, etc..." justified on me asking a question about playing in a scramble the day after a lesson? I have the lesson scheduled and can't reschedule. I have had the scramble scheduled and can't reschedule. I am going to have to do both and I was simply asking for advice from other people. Not a critique of whether or not I am taking my lessons seriously or not...which haven't even started by the way. I'm not going to argue about it....I was just looking for some useful opinions.

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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If the changes are pretty easy and not major, you might be able to play with them the next day. However, if they are pretty extensive, then I would not play using them. It takes time to learn to trust a swing change. All it will do is frustrate you and take you out of your game. When Tiger started to change his swing, he had a plan and he took time off so he could really learn the change. Even after time off, it took him over a year to make the change second nature. Good luck, have fun, and go loooooooow

Also, a lesson is about learning the golf swing. It takes thought as well as practice to learn something new. So don't worry about putting off a few days doing what the pro told you to do.

My swing thoughts:

- Negative thinking hurts more than negative swinging.
- I let my swing balance me.
- Full extension back and through to the target. - I swing under not around my body. - My club must not twist in my swing. - Keep a soft left knee

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If the changes are pretty easy and not major, you might be able to play with them the next day. However, if they are pretty extensive, then I would not play using them. It takes time to learn to trust a swing change. All it will do is frustrate you and take you out of your game. When Tiger started to change his swing, he took time off so he could really learn the change. Even after time off, it took him over a year to make the change second nature. Good luck, have fun, and go loooooooow

This is pretty much what I am talking about when I said, "incorporate the changes" into the scramble. I understand that if the changes are major then I would be stupid to try and use them. But I have no clue what the changes will be as of yet..obviously. I will know after tomorrow what my game plan will be. I won't do anything crazy though..my game is more important than the scramble. We always have fun....that is the best part of these scrambles!! I hope we go REAL LOW!!

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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Problem solved! My teacher called after work to tell me that his dad had major surgery and that he was having to go out of town for probably 3 days. I have to reschedule next week.

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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Wrong. That implies whatever YOU read into it.

Sorry, my mistake. Apparently you just wanted people to agree with you and say you'd be fine and that you weren't wasting your time, money, and effort.

I'e never seen anyone get a swing change overnight. Unless it's a "quick fix" type of thing, I don't expect that you'll get it overnight either.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Sorry, my mistake. Apparently you just wanted people to agree with you and say you'd be fine and that you weren't wasting your time, money, and effort.

Sorry iacas, I usually agree with you, but in this case I relate with and understand what the poster is saying and think you might have missed his meaning.

As I read it, the original post is asking if he should stick with a new swing and risk struggling mightily as a result (which is in no way making light of a swing change, he is acknowledging that this could be disastrous for his score), or if he should bail out and use his old swing at the risk of ruining the progress he makes in the lesson. I think this is an obviously tough decision. I'd say if you can get the ball in the air with the new swing moves you're instructed to make, take it to the course.
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honestly if you, and for that matter anyone reading this, are taking lessons and taking them seriously as you should be if you are paying. get a small booklet, and IMMEDIATELY after the lesson write down in the book anything the pro went over. This way you can always revert back to the book for the changes. Its something anyone serious about golf should be doing.
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Sorry iacas, I usually agree with you, but in this case I relate with and understand what the poster is saying and think you might have missed his meaning.

I might very well have. One more stab at explaining...

As I read it, the original post is asking if he should stick with a new swing and risk struggling mightily as a result (which is in no way making light of a swing change, he is acknowledging that this could be disastrous for his score), or if he should bail out and use his old swing at the risk of ruining the progress he makes in the lesson.

Right, I understood it to be that, but he also thought that he could "incorporate" the changes. I took "incorporate" to mean "successfully adapt." I don't say I've "incorporated" a change until I've managed to succeed at changing. Until then, I say I'm "trying to incorporate" a change.

I may have been reading too much into the language used, but that's what it came down to for me. I wouldn't play in the scramble OR I'd have pushed the lesson back (which is what ended up happening) - I wouldn't put myself in the position you describe: risk blowing up on the golf course OR risk making the lesson less effective by delaying the practicing of any changes. And in the end, maybe it is a small change like something in the setup that you can incorporate (and succeed at) quickly. I don't know. P.S. The best solution seems to have happened anyway. A short delay until after the tournament, but not as long as three weeks. I wish the teacher's dad all the luck with getting well, and the OP with luck in his tournament and his eventual lesson.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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So it seems it came down to simple semantics. You obviously take incorporate as meaning you've completed the change to the point it has become natural, a

fait accompli if you will, while TN94z seems to take it as meaning the process of making the changes. It's a simple misunderstanding, even to the point of the difference between incorporat ed and incorporat ing . This considered, however, you really shouldn't be so quick to criticise someone if you're not exactly sure what they meant by using a particular word. A simple "what do you mean by incorporate" could have avoided the whole argument.
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Okay, sorry guys. Maybe I used a poor choice of words in explaining this and got some people confused. I understand and agree with everyone here. I wasn't trying to get anyone to agree with me on anything as I am not that type of person. I greatly appreciate ANY criticism if it means it will help my game.

Iacas is obviously a much better player than me so I will listen to anything he has to say as far as the golf swing goes. I just think my words were taken out of context and caused much confusion. As you can see from reading the post, the meaning just depends on the person reading the post. Anyway, the problem solved itself so it ended up not being a big deal after all.
honestly if you, and for that matter anyone reading this, are taking lessons and taking them seriously as you should be if you are paying. get a small booklet, and IMMEDIATELY after the lesson write down in the book anything the pro went over. This way you can always revert back to the book for the changes. Its something anyone serious about golf should be doing.

Actually after talking with the guy on the phone, he told me that he will make me a "checklist" on things to practice and work on. But I will also use your suggestion too...that is a very good idea!

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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