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Lift, clean and place??


kleraudio
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Got a rule question here.

Im playing Sunday but they are calling for rain all of saturday meaning the course will be nice and sloppy. Whats the deal with lift clean and place and if we play that way, can I still post my scores??

Thanks!

Jim

In my Ogio Blade Stand Bag:
 

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Source: USGA Handicap Manual
Scores made when a local rule for preferred lies and/or winter rules is in effect must be posted for handicap purposes unless the committee (preferably the Handicap Committee in consultation with the committee in charge of the course) determines that conditions are so poor that such scores should not be posted. Individual players playing the course do not independently decide whether scores are acceptable because of this condition. If an individual decides to apply some form of this local rule and the committee has not invoked such a rule, the player's score is acceptable and must be posted for handicap purposes.


http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handi...anual/Rule-07/

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

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So assuming lift clean and place is in play, how does the rule work. Mark my ball, clean it, and where do I have to replace the ball??

I have a feeling that I'll be getting better lies than the original lie especially if I have a complete mudball that indented itself into the fairway. Just wanna make sure this is acceptable.

Thanks Zeph

Jim

In my Ogio Blade Stand Bag:
 

TaylorMade Burner 10.5*

Adams Insight BUL 15*
Taylormade RBZ 3H

TaylorMade RBZ 4-AW

Vokey SM4 54-11

Cleveland CG14 58 2 dot wedge

Ping Karsten Series Craz-E putter

Top Flite Gamer

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I belive the area within you place the ball is decided by the Tournament Commitee.

Source: Section 7-1
Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within [specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.


Improving the lie is kinda the whole point about this rule. Yes, you can lift, clean and place the ball perfectly perched up on the grass. The lie does not have to be bad for you to use this rule. It can be used on every shot if you want, as long as it's according to the rules (closely mown area etc.).

It's up to the commitee to decide whether the advantages with this rule is acceptable or not.

Make sure you mark the ball before you pick it up to replace it, or you'll be penalized.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

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you have to place it within 6" of where you marked it.

edit:

Are you allowed to brush against the grain of the grass to make it stick up and place it on that.
I'm not sure about that.

My Clubs
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Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
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The lift/clean/place rule is also typically applied ONLY on closely mowed areas, i.e. it applies on the fairway and fringe but not in the rough, where you have to play it as it lies.

Ahhhh, thanks for sharing that. So in the rough, play it as it lies, even if its a severe mud ball?? Thats good to know. I know the reaction I will get if I ask the clubhouse if its lift/clean/place. He'll say, "do whatever you want". Public courses, they really dont care.

Thanks for the input everyone. So only tight lies get the lift/clean/place treatment sunday then. Jim

In my Ogio Blade Stand Bag:
 

TaylorMade Burner 10.5*

Adams Insight BUL 15*
Taylormade RBZ 3H

TaylorMade RBZ 4-AW

Vokey SM4 54-11

Cleveland CG14 58 2 dot wedge

Ping Karsten Series Craz-E putter

Top Flite Gamer

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That is incorrect. The Commitee decide how much of the course the rule applies to.

Source: USGA Rules Appendix I, Part A, 4a
Course conditions that might interfere with proper playing of the game, including mud and extreme wetness, warranting relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green or permitting lifting, cleaning and replacing a ball anywhere through the green or on a closely mown area through the green .


Before someone asks:

Source: Definitions

"Through the green" is the whole area of the course except:

a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and
b. All hazards on the course.

"Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

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Ahhhh, thanks for sharing that. So in the rough, play it as it lies, even if its a severe mud ball?? Thats good to know. I know the reaction I will get if I ask the clubhouse if its lift/clean/place. He'll say, "do whatever you want". Public courses, they really dont care.

What zeph said

Just ask before you go out about the rulings

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...

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Also, only in YOUR fairway.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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Also, only in YOUR fairway.

The rules make no such distinction, no.

Tee boxes also count as a closely mown area.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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In my Sunday game this applies to balls in the fairway. Nothing in the rough can be cleaned. Basically what Zeph said.

But I believe the term used loosely is "rollin em"

Kyle Paulhus

If you really want to get better, check out Evolvr

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The rules make no such distinction, no.

Really? Every time i play in a match or whatever they always say that. Maybe it's a local rule or just something made up.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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I don't think you can just decide to LCP on your own. The course has to call the rule into play for the day. My home course VERY rarely has ever called LCP. On league night if it is wet, they will place a sign at the first tee, and 99.99999% of the time it will say "PLay it down" as the game was intended to be played. JMO of course...
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The rules make no such distinction, no.

If you hook your ball into the adjacent fairway - it's not a "fairway" hit. I think in accordance with equity, a wrong fairway cannot be played LC&P.;

You cannot play a shot from an other hole's tee box either.

driver: FT-i tlcg 9.5˚ (Matrix Ozik XCONN Stiff)
4 wood: G10 (ProLaunch Red FW stiff)
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If you hook your ball into the adjacent fairway - it's not a "fairway" hit. I think in accordance with equity, a wrong fairway cannot be played LC&P.;

That's not how equity works.

And yes, you can play from another hole's tee box. A closely mown area includes all closely mown areas. The only place from which the rules tell you not to hit a shot (well, except ESAs) is on another hole's putting green. The rest of the course is fair game.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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I don't think you can just decide to LCP on your own. The course has to call the rule into play for the day. My home course VERY rarely has ever called LCP. On league night if it is wet, they will place a sign at the first tee, and 99.99999% of the time it will say "PLay it down" as the game was intended to be played. JMO of course...

If you are playing in a competition,then the local rule must be enacted by the committee. If you are playing a casual round, then it's up to your group how you want to do it (your group is essentially its own committee). Such scores are allowed for handicap because it can only lower your index to play every shot from a favorable lie, not raise it. Thus you hurt your own chances in a competition if you maintain such a vanity handicap.

I play the ball as it lies all winter long, except that on sloppy days I may clean a large clod of mud from the ball when it lies in closely mowed areas. If I do so, I will then replace the ball exactly where it was so that I don't gain any other advantage. Even this I only do rarely.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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I hit a shot dead middle of the fairway last week, a day after it rained really good out here. And I couldnt find the ball. Turns out it dug itself about 4 inches deep into the fairway?? Should I take a penalty for hitting an absolutely perfect shot that hit the middle of the fairway?

How would that work?

Thanks!

Jim

In my Ogio Blade Stand Bag:
 

TaylorMade Burner 10.5*

Adams Insight BUL 15*
Taylormade RBZ 3H

TaylorMade RBZ 4-AW

Vokey SM4 54-11

Cleveland CG14 58 2 dot wedge

Ping Karsten Series Craz-E putter

Top Flite Gamer

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Note: This thread is 5200 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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