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interesting discussion... the ethics of an NC/WD

EightBlue

By EightBlue,
in Golf Talk

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  1. 1. Is this unethical

    • yes, you should finish every round
      17
    • no, this doesn't influence the integrity of the tourney
      11

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EightBlue Well Established Member

EightBlue

wanted to get everyone's perspective on this.

Let's say you are playing in a qualifying tournament. You know that the score to get in will be around +2/+3. You are having an off day and shoot 48 on the front (a few out of bounds, one in the h20, etc.)

it is unethical to quit at the turn. Assume that you are not playing in twosomes so you wouldn't be leaving a playing partner by himself. Also, assume that you are as skilled as your playing partners so there is not an issue of them waiting for a much less competitive player.
Bag: Three Five Yellow
Driver: 905R 9.5 Degree, Fujikawa Shaft Shift
3-Wood: Sumo2 15 degree
Hybrids 19 and 21 degree
Irons tour x-20 (5-PW)Wedges vokey 52.08,56.14, 60.04Putter circa 62 #1: Pro V1Where I usually play: Rush Creek
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DavidFehertysBike Great Member

DavidFehertysBike

This happened to me at qauli for the state am last year. I shot 45 or something awful like that on the front. I thought i was completey dead after that and seriouly considered walking off. Play was really slow to begin with so i thought id be helping the other two in the group out. I reconsidered walking up to the 10th tee, just because i thought i might as well get my money's worth. I was more relaxed and shot 37 on the back. I found out after the round that i only missed qaulifying by 2 strokes. Go figure. So i guess my advice would be is always play through. You never know.
THE WEAPONS CACHE..

Titleist 909 D2 9.5 Degree Driver| Titleist 906f4 13.5 degree 3-Wood | Titleist 909 17 & 21 degree hybrid | Titleist AP2 irons
Titleist Vokey Wedges - 52 & 58 | Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 Putter | ProV1 Ball
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James_Black Great Member

James_Black

Yes you should finish, no point leaving the course every time you have a bad day.
You never know what could happen at the turn things could pick up and even if they don't at least you gave it a shot instead of wondering about what could have happened.

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...

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zeg Great Member

zeg

Yes you should finish every round. However I voted "no" because it's not an ethical issue and has no bearing on the integrity of the tournament. You should finish because you should have the attitude that lets you get through it and enjoy it, even if you're out of contention. If you're not able to control yourself emotionally and you're becoming a distraction to your fellow-competitors, then I think you have a duty to withdraw (and find a way to control your emotions in the future). Otherwise, I'm of the opinion that you owe it to yourself to finish something you start, even if it's going to be unsuccessful. Learning to play hard when you have no hope of contention is good training to play hard when you're probably out of contention and that's how you get BACK in contention. Giving up is a recipe to fail the next time.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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jamo Incredible Member

jamo

I don't think quitting really hurts the integrity of the tournament, but it it sure does hurt your ego, thus i voted yes, just for my own reasons. Quitting is just not something i would ever do.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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goblue107501 Great Member

goblue107501

I voted no. I don't think it does anything to the tournament. I wouldn't ever do it myself, but it wouldn't bother me if someone did. I would at least get my money's worth out of the round. I know of a few tournaments where the only chance to play the course is in that setting.

I will judge my rounds much more by the quality of my best shots than the acceptability of my worse ones.

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DBeane Well Established Member

DBeane

WD or NC in a tournament is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes things just get sideways. I would never walk off a course in the middle of a round, however if I hang up an 80 in the opening round of a 2 or 3 day tournament, sometimes the next few days would be better spent on the driving range. While it is admerable to grind it out, if your having to "grind" your way to an 81 then I have been known to apologize to the pro and WD after the round. In 10 years of playing tournaments I have WD'd maybe 2 or 3 times, NC only a few as well. I have learned its best to not show up unless your ready to play.

-Beane
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MiniMoe Dedicated Member

MiniMoe

Look at it from the other players perspective. IF you are having a really bad day, and the guy you are playing with is in contention to qualify, do you want to continue to be a distraction to him? It has nothing to do with integrity or anything. There is nothing wrong with quitting in a qualifier . I am not a big fan of quitting during an actual tournament. There are many pros that do not finish on purpose if they are having a bad round. They reason that it is better to withdraw than to post a high number... at least in regards to sponsors knowing what you shot.

This last year in the U.S. Open qualifier, I played with a guy that was having a very bad day. Normally, things don't bother me that much, but after the third hole I told my caddy I was done helping him find his golf ball. I had a job to do and it was not to hike all over God's creation to be ball retriever. It was very distracting having to wait on him that much... even to the point we were just about to get a penalty for being out of position. On the 12th, he hit one in the bushes, and was heading back to the tee...again.. and a rules official convinced him to go ahead and quit. After that, I played great and ended up going to the next round.

There are times to suck it up and play, and there are times it is better to quit.

My swing thoughts:

- Negative thinking hurts more than negative swinging.
- I let my swing balance me.
- Full extension back and through to the target. - I swing under not around my body. - My club must not twist in my swing. - Keep a soft left knee

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MrKadash Dedicated Member

MrKadash

Absolutely finish. Speaking for myself, I'm not a quitter based on how I am. So if I bomb out, so what. Come back another day and do better. The only time I've ever walked off a golf course during a tournament that wasn't weather related was due to injury, never due to poor play.

Driver: Cobra S2 9.5 Fubuki 73 Stiff | Wood: Titleist 909H 17 Aldila Voodoo Stiff | Irons: Titleist ZB 3-5, ZM 6-PW DG S300 | Wedges: Titleist Vokey SMTC 50.08, 54.11, 60.04 DG S200 | Putter: Scotty Cameron Fastback 1.5 33" | Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

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mn723 Well Established Member

mn723

I wouldn't say it is unethical to quit, but I say you should continue to play and do it with the proper attitude. If you are going to be crabby and a distraction to others then quit, but I say you should realize that once you are no longer in contention your job could be to lighten the mood and be courtious of others.

Last year in our club championship, leading by 1 after day one, I posted a 42 on the front 9 in the second round and realized I was out of it. My 2 playing partners were very much in contention, so on the back nine I focused on playing ready golf and doing my best to get the flag, help with divots and get out of their way. They finished 1st & 3rd in the tourney and I holed a 25' footer on 18 in front of a large gallery to salvage a 79.... I left the course feeling great.

G15 9* w/Aldila Serrano 63S
FT 4 wood w/ Aldila NVS 75S
i15 20* hybrid w/UST Mamiya Avix Core Tour Red 84S
4-PW MP-57 w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold S300 (+0.5")
52, 56 and 60 degree MP-10 Satin w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge FlexStudio Stock #4, BB25, Fastback 1.5 or Backstryke Blade..... @ 34"P...

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Acropo Dedicated Member

Acropo

Personally, I think it's unethical and unfair. Ethics apply to the way you treat your fellow-competitors as well as honesty with yourself.

I don't know about the US but in England & Wales 'qualifying' competitions are about handicap and there is a very important number, in addition to the regular pars - that's CSS: competition scratch score. It's the weighted average of everyone playing. If those having a bit of a bad day don't complete their rounds or do an NR, then the CSS will be lower than should actually be the case - and handicaps aren't measured and adjusted properly. In the case of good players (low and ultra-low handicaps) this could be crucial. we have a very promising youngster in the Club who is playing off +2.something. That +2 is very important for his membership of the England Youth Squad. If, in the Monthly Medal, for example, one gets a bunch of NR/WDs, leading to lower than should be CSS, then he could find his handicap going up 0.1 or more and find himself failing to meet the squad criteria.

So please - no matter how bad it is, keep going for others' sake. What's the worst that could happen to you? An increase of 0.1. If you're playing off 15 or so, that's neither here nor there. For one of your fellow players, it could make a heck of a difference!
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allin Great Member

allin

I wouldn't say it is unethical to quit, but I say you should continue to play and do it with the proper attitude. If you are going to be crabby and a distraction to others then quit, but I say you should realize that once you are no longer in contention your job could be to lighten the mood and be courtious of others.

I agree, I don't think quitting is about integrity, character and integrity are related, quitting may be about character, compare how many wd all time greats have compared to say John Daly? Vanity may be an issue, I would not be thilled to have an 85 show up on the newspaper back page if I was scratch, to much guff from my budies.

1W Cleveland LauncherComp 10.5, 3W Touredge Exotics 15 deg.,FY Wilson 19.5 degree
4 and 5H, 6I-GW Callaway Razr, SW, LW Cleveland Cg-14, Putter Taylor Made Suzuka, Ball, Srixon XV Yellow

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Leftygolfer Great Member

Leftygolfer

Does it hurt the competition, probably not, is it something I would do, never. I just couldn't imagine paying the money and not finishing the round. If I slow down play becuase I am playing that bad, I might consider it. But even a horrid day I am not loosing a ton of balls or taking a ton of time. I just couldn't imagine my play would ever be that bad I would slow down my group for more than a hole.

Brian

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