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sweet spot is the toe?


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ok, so I bought some new MP-57's last year
they are standard lie, loft but 1/4" longer than standard

i find i am hitting a lot off the toe of the club, rather than in the middle - especially long irons
what is this a result of?

I found comparing them to my Nike PFC's, they are shorter and sit A LOT flatter
and when i miss them, I miss left and usually a hook
I never had this issue w my Nike's

they have DGS300 shafts and my Nike's had the STEP's w REG shaft's

do I need to have them bent upright more?

got mt thinking about some AP2's......or goin back to Nike and some VR combo's

again, thanks for your help!

enis
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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It's funny that you posted this because I was going to post something similar.

I bought a new set of MP-57's in the fall that were also +.25" longer and standard lie/loft. Most of my hits are also on the toe. This didn't happen with my old Titleist irons.

When I setup in a full length mirror, I notice that the toe is off the floor and the face is not sitting flat to the ground. Do I need to have these bent more upright? I'm standard heighth (5'8"). I thougt I read somewhere that Mizuno irons are built for Japanese golfers and may not be standard for most American golfers. Any truth to this and should I go get these irons looked at?

Sorry to hijack but I'm curious about this subject also.
In my Hoofer:

G15 Driver 9° | Accra Classic SE stiff
Cleveland Hi-Bore 3W 15° | Accra Classic SE stiff
MP-57 3-PW | Rifle flighted shafts 6.0 Spin Milled 52-08 |Black Nickel | True Temper Dynamic Gold Spin Milled 56-08 |Black Nickel | True Temper Dynamic Gold Black Series I#9 putter Pro V1x
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Same thing happened to me. I had the mp57s with the project X 5.5. Lost my swing completely. Mishits were a total nightmare. Sold them, went back to my old ping i3, changed the original graphite shafts for KBS steel and have regained my usual swing and game.

Please don´t swing while I´m talking !!
 

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If toe if off the floor isn't the club too upright shouldn't they be flattened out a bit

My bad. I meant flatten instead of bent upright. Thanks.

In my Hoofer:

G15 Driver 9° | Accra Classic SE stiff
Cleveland Hi-Bore 3W 15° | Accra Classic SE stiff
MP-57 3-PW | Rifle flighted shafts 6.0 Spin Milled 52-08 |Black Nickel | True Temper Dynamic Gold Spin Milled 56-08 |Black Nickel | True Temper Dynamic Gold Black Series I#9 putter Pro V1x
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You could be missing off the toe with both clubs and just not getting punished by the others. I had the mp 60s and got killed. I really don't think the club is the reason you are mishitting it. I just think that particular club hates being hit off the toe.

Brian

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To the OP, I fail to see how bending the clubs more upright will fix your problem with the left side of the course. In fact, I would think doing so would accomplish exactly the opposite effect. Also, I'm not sure that the lie angle is what has you playing off the toe. The length on the other hand could be the culprit. Playing clubs that are too short could be causing you to compensate during the swing. How did you come to +.25? Were you fitted for this measurement with these clubs or is that just 'your' specification?

I've found that since OEMs have differing stock lengths, its often better to know your global specs versus a relative spec. For instance, Mizuno MP-52s, Nike VR Blades, and Taylormade Burners have stock 6-iron lengths of 37.25", 37.5", and 37.625" respectively. If you show up with an "I need +.25" and standard lie" attitude, you can see how your results will vary from set to set. Its better to find a certain club length you like and tailor the set from there.
Driver: Taylormade Tour Burner 9.5° | Fairway Wood: Adams Speedline Fast 10 15° | Irons: Mizuno MP-57 3-PW | Wedges: Cleveland CG11 52° 56° 60° | Putter: Odyssey White Hot XG Rossie
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i purchased them from ebay and they were +.25 long - didnt think it would make a diff, just choke up slightly
I don't miss to often, so please don't think I am blaming the clubs SOLELY for missing...

but it looks like i am always hitting these off the toe, instead of the dead in the middle
the hooks when i miss?? not sure........ before these clubs, I NEVER HOOKED A BALL...like never

bending them upright may help me get the ball closer to the middle of the face, instead of the toe...or so i think??
thats why i posted as I am unsure
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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ok, so I bought some new MP-57's last year

How are your typical shots - I don't think more upright is the answer for a hook or for hitting out near the toe, but I could be wrong.

I hit my Mizuno MP-11s (not the same club as yours obviously) slightly toward the toe for years (a 1/2 dozen hosel rockets in one day will do that to you). I actually preferred hitting them slightly toward the toe. Maybe that's why I like my Hogan PCs so much - even right on the button they feel like a toed Mizuno.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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How are your typical shots - I don't think more upright is the answer for a hook or for hitting out near the toe, but I could be wrong.

typical shots are good....shorter than my Nike's, but good

i think i am losing distance because i am hitting it off the toe and not off the middle of the club i dont want to take them in to get "fitted" as its winter still and my swing is not as pure as it will be in 2-3 months from now gotta dust the rust off from winter i guess....but this issue is from last year, not the winter I only hit these twice over the winter and about 7 rounds w them last year
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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thinking out loud here

maybe it is the lenght?

if the club is longer, technically the toe would be dragged through the grass first, and first point of contact would be the toe?
so choke up??

tried that.......kinda works

spend the $$ and get them cut to proper length??
what IS the "proper length"

hmmm.....

i dont really want to get rid of these clubs though....i like them a lot
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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maybe get some impact tape to see exactly where you are hitting the ball and where the bottom is hitting also? I took my clubs to golfers warehouse one day and they put a couple pieces of tape on the bottom to see where i was impacting to see if it was something with the club.

4DX Evolver 10.5 Stiff UST V2
Big Bertha Steelhead Plus 3wood
mp-32 3-pw tt x100's
xtour 56/52deg
feel golf 60 deg lob wedge dual force rossie blade I golf balls

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maybe get some impact tape to see exactly where you are hitting the ball and where the bottom is hitting also? I took my clubs to golfers warehouse one day and they put a couple pieces of tape on the bottom to see where i was impacting to see if it was something with the club.

thats a good idea

once i get swinging again, i will do just that i dont want to get too concerned right now though......its still cold, but golf IS around the corner..i can feel it!
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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here is some interested numbers
I compared my old Nike PFC, the MP 57's and I am considering the Titleist Forged ZB's as well

Mizuno
ClubLHLoft °Lie °Offset "Length "Bounce °
3 yes2159.50.161"38.751
4yes2460.00.154"38.251
5yes2760.50.146"37.752
6yes3161.00.138"37.252
7yes3561.50.130"36.753
8yes3962.00.126"36.254
9yes4362.50.114"35.755
PWyes4763.00.114"35.506

Titleist ZB Forged

Z•B Forged2 Iron3 Iron4 Iron5 Iron6 Iron7 Iron8 Iron9 IronP
OFFSET.150" .140" .130" .120" .110" .100" .090" .080" .075"
BOUNCE0° 1° 2° 3° 4° 5° 6° 7° 8°
LOFT18° 21° 24° 27° 31° 35° 39° 43° 47°
LENGTH39.50" 39.00" 38.50" 38.00" 37.50" 37.00" 36.50" 36.00" 35.75"
LIE60° 60° 61° 62° 62.5° 63° 63.5° 64° 64°
SWINGWEIGHTD2 D2 D2 D2 D2 D2 D2 D2 D2

Nike Pro Forged Combos

Iron23456789PW
Loft(°)182124273135394347
Lie(°)585960616262.56363.564
Length(")139.53938.53837.53736.53635.75

as i thought the Mizuno's are flatter
and WAAAY more offset
BUT are standard .25 shorter than the Nikes or the Titleist's....so they are technically the same lenght, as mine are +.25

i think the offset is the reason for the hooks - my Nikes were bullets
i prefer less of an offset for sure

i liked the Nike PFC's alot

i make pick up these ZM Forged's...i hit them today and loved them
can get a set on ebay for a good price as well

i think Mizzy's will be for sale
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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This whole discussion is a bit abstract.

The most important thing someone pointed out is that you could be hitting in the toe with every club, but these make it more apparent. The toe is the most common mishit. Here's how to diagnose.

To find where the actual sweet spot is, just take your iron, and hold it by the shaft. The face should point up. Cover the face with some tape. Take a golf ball, and bounce it off the face. When you hit the face with a ball, you should feel the shaft twist if it's striking off center, but you should feel no twist when it's on center. Mark that on center spot with a marker.

Next thing to do is to hit some balls. Watch where the ball leaves marks the tape. If it's on the same spot as the mark you made earlier, you're hitting on center. If not, you can see where you're mishitting. If it's on the toe, then follow the next step.

Now, if these mishits are in the toe, the most obvious reason would be a swing fault. But before you consider that, you need to go to a fitter, and hit balls off of a lie board. If you find that your irons are too flat, then you must hit it off the toe to make contact, because you'd skull it if it hit on the center. If that's the case, Mizunos can be bent very easily (and cheaply, my fitter didn't even charge to bend my Nikes, and the Clevelands cost $10).

If the fit is proper, however, and you're still catching it in the toe, then it's the swing, and your older clubs merely covered the problem up. Many people don't realize they are hitting the ball off center; modern clubs do a good job covering that up. I like to keep some very old 1960s blades around check my swing. If I can pure a 60s blade 2 iron down the middle, then I'm OK. If not, time to check the swing.

If that's the case, you need to fix the swing.

And one more thing. At address, the toe should always be off the ground. If you have a two plane swing (like most), then you need it to be up several degrees. A one plane swing only requires enough toe up to counteract toe-down effect. The only way to be sure, is to go to your local shop or clubfitter and hit from a lie board.
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i hit the ZB forged irons today and did not hit it on the toe
i also hit an MP 57 they had there and was again hitting off the toe

after comparing the two again, I realized how much offset the Mizzy's have compared to the Titleists - and my Nikes were similar to the ZB's

I could have them bent, BUT this wont change the offset.....

my swing, I THINK is ok......one of the things i pride myself in is my contact
i rarely hit range balls because i dont think my ball striking needs work......
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
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i hit the ZB forged irons today and did not hit it on the toe

Always check the lie angles. You can't be even remotely sure without checking. No matter how good a swing is, a bad lie angle will destroy it.

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This whole discussion is a bit abstract.

I had a flashback to the 1 Iron shot at Marion...LOL. Shanks has some great ideas/tips and is dead on.

Any club fitter will tell you that you need to fit length first. Check the loft and lie of your set...they are not always to spec or have been modified by the previous owner Get some impact tape and hit the clubs you have and the clubs you like (ZB's) and compare the patterns on the face And don't cut down the shafts you'll open a whole different can of worms and check the flex of the shafts too!

"the only thing you should force in a golf swing is the club back into the bag" --Byron Nelson

Driver 983 K 8.5 Grafalloy ProLite Stiff
Fairway Big Bertha Steel Head 4 Wood Memphis 10 Steel
Irons 3-PW CB 690 Flighted Rifle 6.0 +.50..+1^Wedges Mild Steel Raw 254-10 & 260-10..+2^Putter 8802 the...

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Note: This thread is 5119 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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