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Advise on long par 4's

Bug Bunny

By Bug Bunny,
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Bug Bunny Well Established Member

Bug Bunny

Okay guys, I just really started playing last year. I'm actually starting to get a lil consistency with my swing, save 4-5 strokes per round. Here ismy question, I'm pretty short on my yardages right now which is fine fir the moment. PW is 100, 9 is 110 and so on. But here is my struggle. On the LONG par 4's where I have no chance of reaching in two, what is the best approach to the hole? For instance, there is one hole that has a water hazard from 220-240 so I tee off with a 3 wood (170-180) but that leaves me 220 or so to the hole which I have no club for. What would you do??

In my Nike SasQuatch Staff Bag:
Driver: Callaway FT-IQ 9.5 Stiff
Irons: Ping G5 4-P
Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56*, Cleveland bent to 49*
Putter: Scotty Cameron California Monterey
Ball: Srizon Z-Star Yellow
Range: SkyCaddie 2.5

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James_Black Great Member

James_Black

Well I'd hit a 5 wood down and leave myself with a little pitch in.

But I'd also choke down on my driver and hit it short of the hazard and then go for it in 2.

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...

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DaSportsGuy Great Member

DaSportsGuy

The hole is 400 yards?

I would hit my 3 Wood off the tee. I hit it just about 200 yards off the tee. Then hit my 3 Wood again try and reach it in two.

Career Bests:

9 Holes--37 @ The Fairways at Arrowhead-Front(+2)

18 Holes--80 @ Carroll Meadows Golf Course(+9)

 

Home Course:

1) The Fairways at Arrowhead

2) Mayfair Country Club

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scottevans77 Well Established Member

scottevans77

If you're confident in your 9 iron or pitching wedge, hit either one of those for your 2nd shot and it'll leave you a full 9 or pw in. You won't get a birdie, but you may set yourself up for more pars.

In My Bag:
SQ Dymo2 10.5
SQ Dymo2 15
a2 3-PW
Tom Watson Wedges 52, 56, 60 Unitized Retro 33"

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drglew Well Established Member

drglew

If you're half-decent with short irons but erratic with fairway woods, i'd bet you'd shoot better scores on average playing it as a par 5 and going 9i, then PW to the green, instead of ending up in a bunch of junk, or with a weird yardarge (i.e. 50 yards -- even the pro's don't like that shot).

Driver: Cleveland Classic 270, 10.5*
Fairway Woods: Adams Speedline LP (3 & 5)
Hybrids: Wilson Staff Fybrids 21*, 24*, UST V2 stiff
Irons: Callaway X-20 Tour, 5-PW, Rifle Project-X (flighted) 6.0
Wedges: Cleveland CG15 DSG 52* & 58* +/- 56* Niblick

Putter: Yes! Amy

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Ozarkhillbilly Member

Ozarkhillbilly

My advise would be to hit your 3 wood and then hit an iron to a comfortable distance and try to make par........

What's in my Stand Bag.....
Driver: 909 D2 8.5 Graphite Design YS-6
3-Wood: 904 F 15 Rifle Shaft
Irons: 2-PW 690 MB Blades
Wedges:Spin Milled 54 & 58 degreePutter: TeI3 Newport LongneckBalls: Pro-V1xFavorite Golfer: Nick Watney

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Par Fore Well Established Member

Par Fore

Your lay-up is too short on that hole....you need to be laying up to 200+......work a little to get your distance up on the 3wd, or take a little off the driver....

Also, it really depends on the hole.....if it's fairly wide open after the water, just hit your 3wd and get as close as you can.....try to find that right perfect lay-up distance where you can roll up your 3wd second shot just to the front of the green....if the hole gets narrow or there is a bunch of trouble, just lay-up with a 7 iron and leave a perfect piching wedge into the green.....there is no point in wasting balls and piling up penalty strokes....
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Chief Broom Great Member

Chief Broom

Lay up. You can either take the lay up approach of getting as close to the green as possible or lay up to a particular yardage. A lot of people don't like to lay up on par 4's because they feel it takes birdie out of the equation. The truth is though that the par 4's you need to lay up on are the hardest holes on the course and while laying up makes making a birdie hard (at best you're chipping) it also helps to take those higher blow up scores out of the equation. As a bogie golfer the likelihood of you making a mess of those tough par 4's is much higher than the chance that you'll hit three career shots to walk away with birdie. One of the first steps you take in becoming better than a bogie golfer is when you learn to work your way around the course and you do that by eliminating high scores first and then figuring out how to birdie the occassional hole.

Nike Vapor Speed driver 12* stock regular shaft
Nike Machspeed 4W 17*, 7W 21* stock stiff shafts
Ping i10 irons 4-9, PW, UW, SW, LW AWT stiff flex
Titleist SC Kombi 35"; Srixon Z Star XV tour yellow

Clicgear 3.0; Sun Mountain Four 5

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zeg Great Member

zeg

I have a similar issue with a hole on my course. It's a par 5, but honestly ought to be a par 4. It's about 450, a bit uphill, so a tad longer than your hole. I've found that I can do just as well with a mid-iron off the tee (say a 5 or 6 iron, which I hit 150-170 depending on the day). If I can put that in the fairway, then I hit the same club again, leaving 120-150 yards left. That's close enough I can be on or close in one more stroke with nothing longer than a 6 iron. It's easier to play this strategy with the comfort of an extra stroke to par, but in my case, the absolute score is better if I just play this out.

Of course, I normally say to heck with my score and hit a driver off the tee. That makes it a touch easier if I happen to hit well, but on average I end up either in an adjoining fairway or stuck with a pitch out from behind the driving range net.

In your case, the water complicates things. How long is the water carry, is it 20 yards starting at 220? I'd just say you want your second shot to maximize the odds of carrying the water, without regard for the next stroke, so if you can get your PW or 9I up in the air consistently, as long as you hit to 150 or 160 off the tee you'll clear the water. If you can get longer irons up in the air, all the better...

Play for bogey on the hole, and sometimes you'll "birdie" for a gross par.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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Bug Bunny Well Established Member

Bug Bunny

  • Author
In your case, the water complicates things. How long is the water carry, is it 20 yards starting at 220? I'd just say you want your second shot to maximize the odds of carrying the water, without regard for the next stroke, so if you can get your PW or 9I up in the air consistently, as long as you hit to 150 or 160 off the tee you'll clear the water. If you can get longer irons up in the air, all the better...

You gotta pretty much carry 240 to clear the water. If I'm not hitting my driver well that day, I'll hit it off the tee but even if I hit it perfect right to the edge, I'm still left with 180 to the hole which is prolly the smallest green on the course so I'm never comfy with my second shot. I will concede that I can't reach in two but I've always hit a long second shot knowing it had to be perfect and as a result, I've parred the hole just a couple of times. Most of the time, I double or triple. I think I'll just approach it as a 5. That will take all the pressure off the tee and 2nd shot. And hit a 9 or P on the green and see if I can get a makable putt. Playing it that way, I'm still confident I'll bogey more times than now and up my % of a par with a good putt. Once my yardages increase, I'll look forward to changing my approach to this hole.

Either way, this approach will take the doubles and triples out I think.

In my Nike SasQuatch Staff Bag:
Driver: Callaway FT-IQ 9.5 Stiff
Irons: Ping G5 4-P
Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56*, Cleveland bent to 49*
Putter: Scotty Cameron California Monterey
Ball: Srizon Z-Star Yellow
Range: SkyCaddie 2.5

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Bug Bunny Well Established Member

Bug Bunny

  • Author
Your lay-up is too short on that hole....you need to be laying up to 200+......work a little to get your distance up on the 3wd, or take a little off the driver....

LOL, thanks for the advise. I'm definitely working on the distance thing but a concentrating on a consistent swing and contact for now. After the water, this hole necks down quite a bit with trees all over left of the green and bunker on the right. We'll see what happens with the lay up approach as I'm playing Thursday, Friday and Saturday!!!! If I do this and no doubles, then I'm eliminating strokes!!!

In my Nike SasQuatch Staff Bag:
Driver: Callaway FT-IQ 9.5 Stiff
Irons: Ping G5 4-P
Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56*, Cleveland bent to 49*
Putter: Scotty Cameron California Monterey
Ball: Srizon Z-Star Yellow
Range: SkyCaddie 2.5

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skagen Member

skagen

You gotta pretty much carry 240 to clear the water. If I'm not hitting my driver well that day, I'll hit it off the tee but even if I hit it perfect right to the edge, I'm still left with 180 to the hole which is prolly the smallest green on the course so I'm never comfy with my second shot. I will concede that I can't reach in two but I've always hit a long second shot knowing it had to be perfect and as a result, I've parred the hole just a couple of times. Most of the time, I double or triple. I think I'll just approach it as a 5. That will take all the pressure off the tee and 2nd shot. And hit a 9 or P on the green and see if I can get a makable putt. Playing it that way, I'm still confident I'll bogey more times than now and up my % of a par with a good putt. Once my yardages increase, I'll look forward to changing my approach to this hole.

like others have said, play it like a par 5. Just make sure your 3rd shot is a chip or pitch you put close and one putt. You don't always have to make par, many times bogey is a great score for the whole. If you try and push it, you could end up with a bigger number. You seem to have quite a large gap between 3 wood and driver.

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Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

You're probably getting at least one stroke on the hole, so treat it as a short par-5.

And then we get into strategy on short par-5. Play it backwards: how far from the green do you want to be for a comfortable third shot? For me, if I can get within 45 yards easily, I'll do so: All other things being equal, I'd rather have a half-wedge than a full shot. Depending on your experience with half wedges, you might prefer a 9-iron or PW.

Next time you play the hole, check out where a good approach (third) shot for you will be from. Is there a flat spot with a good look at the middle of the green at a comfortable (however you define that) distance? Try to get there in two.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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HDridin_Golfer Member

HDridin_Golfer

Nothing wrong with taking a bogie on long par 4's. They usually have the most difficult handicap rating. Too many times I have seen doubles, triples or worse when trying to hard to reach in regulation on long par 4's.

TaylorMade R11S 9 Degree

TaylorMade R5 Dual 3 Wood
TaylorMade Rescue Mid 19 and 22 degree
Ping Eye 2 Plus Irons 4-SW
Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Blade putter

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Bug Bunny Well Established Member

Bug Bunny

  • Author
You seem to have quite a large gap between 3 wood and driver.

I do. Not sure about resolving that right now. When I'm hitting my driver really good it's 220-240. When I hit my 3 wood PERFECT, it's 180-185. Most times, if it's straight and 170-175, I'm tickled!

In my Nike SasQuatch Staff Bag:
Driver: Callaway FT-IQ 9.5 Stiff
Irons: Ping G5 4-P
Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56*, Cleveland bent to 49*
Putter: Scotty Cameron California Monterey
Ball: Srizon Z-Star Yellow
Range: SkyCaddie 2.5

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zeg Great Member

zeg

Nothing wrong with taking a bogie on long par 4's. They usually have the most difficult handicap rating. Too many times I have seen doubles, triples or worse when trying to hard to reach in regulation on long par 4's.

Exactly. If I could drop my triples down to, say, half bogeys and half double bogeys, I could save an average of more than 6 strokes per 18. I don't think I'm the only high-handicapper with this sort of game...

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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Bug Bunny Well Established Member

Bug Bunny

  • Author
Nothing wrong with taking a bogie on long par 4's. They usually have the most difficult handicap rating. Too many times I have seen doubles, triples or worse when trying to hard to reach in regulation on long par 4's.

Yeah, this hole in particular isn't long as much as the hazards regulate where shots play. We've got some longer holes that I regularly reach because the fairway and approach area are pretty open allowing off target hits to still be playable whereas on this hole, it's wet or in the trees!!

In my Nike SasQuatch Staff Bag:
Driver: Callaway FT-IQ 9.5 Stiff
Irons: Ping G5 4-P
Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56*, Cleveland bent to 49*
Putter: Scotty Cameron California Monterey
Ball: Srizon Z-Star Yellow
Range: SkyCaddie 2.5

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Lefty-Golfer Great Member

Lefty-Golfer

Okay guys, I just really started playing last year. I'm actually starting to get a lil consistency with my swing, save 4-5 strokes per round. Here ismy question, I'm pretty short on my yardages right now which is fine fir the moment. PW is 100, 9 is 110 and so on. But here is my struggle. On the LONG par 4's where I have no chance of reaching in two, what is the best approach to the hole? For instance, there is one hole that has a water hazard from 220-240 so I tee off with a 3 wood (170-180) but that leaves me 220 or so to the hole which I have no club for. What would you do??

play it as a par 5

Driver- Callaway Razor somthing or other
3W- Taylor Made R11S
3H Rocketballz
4I-PW- MP-59
Gap- Vokey 54

Lob- Cleveland 60

Putter- Rife

Skycaddie SG5  

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