Jump to content
IGNORED

For you + index players


Jaywun
Note: This thread is 4936 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I often wonder what separates you guys from the Nationwide tour guys or PGA. I don't personally know any + index players. The best of my friends are above 0 to 1.5 and they say they are light years away from pro's. I see +2 and +3 players posting on different forums and I wonder how far they are away from playing professionally. Is it just opportunity or are the tour players just that much better? That leads me to this question. If my 1 and 2 index friends shoot 68 and 69 on my local Muni course like I shoot 80. What would a top 50 PGA or Nationwide guy shoot? It scares me to think! You scratchers please chime in.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think there was a calculation on here saying the worst (score wise ) player on the tour probably (roughly computed) I believe was +6 or so.. maybe it was +3.8? I can't remember anyways, these guys would destroy anyone. Nationwide I'm not so sure about, I was talking about PGA... they are all super talented though.

Driver: adams.gif Speedline 9032LS RIP Shaft (Stiff)

3 Wood: adams.gif Oviation 3Wood

Hybrids: taylormade.gif Rescue 18* 3H - 22* 4H

Irons: callaway.gif X-24 Hot Irons 5-PW

Wedges: cleveland.gif CG15 52, 56

 

Putter: odyssey.gif PT 82

Ball:  e6

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I know I'm not a + handicap, but I am in the ballpark. Remember...handicap is not scoring average. I am a 1.5 index and my scoring average was 77 at my club (CR 73.1, Slope 135, Par 71). A +2 will probably have a scoring average of 72 at the same course. I can't imagine a PGA pro averaging as high as 72 at my course. My guess is that if an average pro teed it up against me he would beat me by at least 10 shots unless I am really on my game. Take a look at the U.S. Open Challenge as an example. I believe guys like Tony Romo and Michael Jordan, who both play around scratch or at worst a 2, are shooting around 80. Even though the course is tough, most pros were able to beat those guys by 10 shots.

I remember seeing the same thing bkoguy07 is talking about. They calculated Tiger's 2007 handicap and it was around +8. The worst PGA pros were +4 I think

"I'm not going left or right of those trees, okay. I'm going over those trees...with a little draw." ~ Tin Cup

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I recently saw the best round in my life. I paired with 2 guys at my local Muni. 1 guy said he was a 4 and his friend just said +. I've been golfing for 20 yrs. and just recently found out there was such a thing as plus. I really wanted to pick his brain but never got the chance. He was very polite, just not very talkative. He blasted thru that course like I've never seen. He shot 6 under! The only time I thought he might bogey, he sunk a 10 footer for par. So solid! He hit 1 3wood and irons to the other par 5's, hit the green in 2 every par 5. His buddy shot 1 over and I shot 81. He actually said "nice shot" to me a couple times. God give me a break! At the end I asked him if he was a pro and he just said No-nice meeting you. That left me wondering, on that day, on that course, in that group, what would Kutcher,Stricker,or Furyk have shot?.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I recently saw the best round in my life. I paired with 2 guys at my local Muni. 1 guy said he was a 4 and his friend just said +. I've been golfing for 20 yrs. and just recently found out there was such a thing as plus. I really wanted to pick his brain but never got the chance. He was very polite, just not very talkative. He blasted thru that course like I've never seen. He shot 6 under! The only time I thought he might bogey, he sunk a 10 footer for par. So solid! He hit 1 3wood and irons to the other par 5's, hit the green in 2 every par 5. His buddy shot 1 over and I shot 81. He actually said "nice shot" to me a couple times. God give me a break! At the end I asked him if he was a pro and he just said No-nice meeting you. That left me wondering, on that day, on that course, in that group, what would Kutcher,Stricker,or Furyk have shot?.

That has been my experience with really good players, too. They just go about their business.

The first time I ever caddied when I was 13, almost 30 years ago, the guy I caddied for had 8 under. I was amazed, and I still remember a lot of the shots he played in that round. And...I'll bet money that this guy has very little interest in stamping his wedges and having the latest driver, ridiculous "custom" features on a putter or having a signature on a golf forum that says "Swing: S&T;". In fact, I'd bet he doesn't even know what a golf forum is. Really good players are interested in one thing and one thing only. Playing as well as they can.

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I often wonder what separates you guys from the Nationwide tour guys or PGA. I don't personally know any + index players. The best of my friends are above 0 to 1.5 and they say they are light years away from pro's. I see +2 and +3 players posting on different forums and I wonder how far they are away from playing professionally. Is it just opportunity or are the tour players just that much better? That leads me to this question. If my 1 and 2 index friends shoot 68 and 69 on my local Muni course like I shoot 80. What would a top 50 PGA or Nationwide guy shoot? It scares me to think! You scratchers please chime in.

I think last year there was a thread something like this one. One of the responses was, "play your home course for one month from the tips and if you average 68 then you have a shot the Nation Wide tour".
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm having one of those "what the h___ was I thinking!" moments. Back when I first broke under 10 hdcp.( I'm now over 11)I remember saying once that on my home course, I could play a skins match with a pro and win at least 1 hole. Thank God I only said it to my kids. I'd have a better chance of beating Cain Velasquez in a cage fight!
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm having one of those "what the h___ was I thinking!" moments. Back when I first broke under 10 hdcp.( I'm now over 11)I remember saying once that on my home course, I could play a skins match with a pro and win at least 1 hole. Thank God I only said it to my kids. I'd have a better chance of beating Cain Velasquez in a cage fight!

i beat my assistant pro this year....hehhe! but he really played like sh*t that day shooting a 75 and he is a legit +3 index - i shot a one over 72

he doesnt have to keep a valid index as he is a "pro" but he keeps one anyways i was really nervous when i got invited to play with thim and a few other + index's, but like Shorty mentioned and the OP, these guys are out there for one reason to score and score low no temper tantrums, no loud f bombs or anything like that and VERY VERY solid putting i think the biggest thing other than talent is the 6" between their ears...they know how to control their head and stay calm Example: on hole 11 my asst pro hooked his drive, then over shot the green and 3 putted for a bogey (after eagling the prev hole) our hole 12 is a very tight short par 4, with sand protecting the front of an elevated green i NEVER pull driver out, a solid 3w puts me to a nice 125 yd knock down PW that will sit he pulled driver and blasted it within 50yds of the hole to have the balls to pull driver after snap hooking the previous hole, on a tight par 4.....impressed the crap outta me he then birdied......
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
Link to comment
Share on other sites


enis, I wish I had more opportunity to play with those guys. It just seems like there are so many guys around here under 5. They just dont wanna play with hackers. I kinda understand. I'm just a firm believer that the only way to get low mith my handicap is to play more with the low guys. I know joining a club is the way to go but with kids in college.........you know.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


There's a +1 hcap at my club who I have played with once. He used to be a +2. He had just bought a set of irons, so just went round 9 holes hitting them. No woods in his bag at all. He shot 3 under for the 9 holes. Including dropping a 40ft birdie on the par 4 17th, 466 yards. He hit 3 iron, 3 iron. They really are just focused, and mentally sound.
What I Play:
Wilson Mini Stand Bag | PING G10, 10.5°, Proforce V2 HL S | PING G5, 15°, 18°, Aldila NV 75 S | PING G5, 19°, Aldila VS Proto By You 80 S
Mizuno MX200 4-PW S | Ping Tour W 50/12 X | Ping Tour W 58/TS X | A selection of putters, all 35.5 inches.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


enis, I wish I had more opportunity to play with those guys. It just seems like there are so many guys around here under 5. They just dont wanna play with hackers. I kinda understand. I'm just a firm believer that the only way to get low mith my handicap is to play more with the low guys. I know joining a club is the way to go but with kids in college.........you know.

i wish i had more of an opportuniy to play w better golfers too....i only plaed twice w my asst pro and once in a tourney w another couple of + guys

there is 2 + guys at my club this year i wont be a member there next yr tho........looking to go somewhere w a proper men's night and a more challenging course that is a bit longer its not that they dont "like" to play w guys not their skill level i know they like to keep a consistent pace of play and get through a round not searching for lost balls they all started as 20, 10, 5 and 0 players at some point i dont mind playing w guys that score worse than me, but i like to learn from better guys too IMO you can learn things from a + that you cant leanr from a 15, but same can be said vise versa
"My swing is homemade - but I have perfect flaws!" - Me
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Having played with a number of pros (some who were great players, others just so-so) and other plus handicaps, I've found that they don't have a problem with higher handicappers, so long as they don't slow up play. I would add that I will play with anyone, but don't bring a negative attitude to the course. The absolute worse kind of player is one who doesn't have much game, plays slow, sprays it all over the place, then complains all day long about their game. Life is too short to play with negative players.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I often wonder what separates you guys from the Nationwide tour guys or PGA.

Personally, I'd chalk it up to experience, time and backing. I don't play golf full-time, yet. I do have to hold down a job to pay for entry fees, travel, food and rent, amongst other things. Full-time players are playing tournament golf four days a week. If they do or don't make the cut they are still practicing on the other days. I do have a large amount of time I can dedicate to my game, but not quite that much. I could get a sponsor or backer, but I feel like that would put some extra level of pressure on my game that I'm just not looking for. Therefore, other than a few entry fees my dad helps me out with, everything else is on my dime. Lastly comes experience. Most of the dudes out there came from junior golf onto college golf mixed with an amateur career. I got none of that. I played on my high school team, but that was the extent of my amateur golf. I only got really serious about my game when I got my golf course job, seven years ago now. And started playing on the professional level about five years ago. I'm practically a baby to the competitive game, at 34 years old.

Drive down south and go stalk your fellow sandtrapper Ben.

whao whao whao, let's not get crazy here. Unless of course Jaywun happens to be an attractive girl? :P

Callaway RazrFit Extreme 9.5 w/Project X 6.5
Callaway XHot Pro 15* 3Wood w/Project X 6.5
Callaway XTour 18* 2h w/S300
Callaway XHot Pro 4/5 irons w/S300
Callaway XForged III 5-PW irons w/S300
Callaway Forged 52*/58* Wedges
Odyssey 7 Versa 90
Callaway Hex Black Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The difference....

I posted this on another thread...several weeks ago, I played with a buddy of mine and current PGA tour member. We played a respectable Nationwide course 75.2 / 142, 7440 yds. I put togther a good round and shot a 68 (-3). My partner just out realxing, with several beers, shot a 62 (-9).

That is the difference between a touring pro, and a typical plus handicapper. They have the talent, coupled with the time and menas to put in hours of practice towards their goals.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


These stories remind me of the time here in Illinois.

the sectional qualifier for the Winged Foot Open in '06 was at a course here in Illinois that I played a lot in high school. Steve Stricker and Mike Small were paired together for the qualifier; I thought it would be awesome to see how they played. Now this course, St. Charles Country Club, is not a beast but it's certainly not an easy course. The best round I ever put up there was 2 under 70. I followed Stricker and Small for both rounds...want to know what they shot with only one practice round?

Stricker - 65 - 64 = 129 (15 under par)
Small - 69 - 66 = 135 (9 under par)

Small missed the Open by a shot because Jason Allred shot 63 in the afternoon round. They absolutely picked that course apart. Oh, and Stricker bogeyed the first two holes of the day. After that, it was goddamn lights out. I've never seen more putts drop; he made everything.

Driver: R11s 9 with a Fubuki Tour 63 X-Stiff
Fairway Wood: R11s 15.5 with Miyazaki Kusala Black 83 X-Stiff

Hybrid: taylormade.gif 4 with Fubuki 515 X-Stiff
Irons: titleist.gif Forged 660 3-PW with Dynamic Gold X-100

Wedges: callaway.gif CC Jaws 52 and 58 Degree
Putter: ping.gif In Anser 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites


http://www.pga.info/AboutThePGAPro/33811381.htm

"amateurs thinking about going for their tour cards or turning professional will probably need to be playing off, or equivalent to, a handicap of plus three or four as a minimum to have any realistic chance of cutting it and make a living at the highest level."

also suggests if you get to that +4 level, you start on a mini tour such as euro pro/Jamega here in the UK (think it's hooters in the US?).

Cobra - Speed Pro 8.5º X-Flex, Speed Pro 13º S-Flex | Mizuno - MP CLK 20º Hybrid, MP-67 DG S300 4-PW | Cleveland - CG10 52º,56º, 60º | Rife - Antigua Island 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 4936 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • I kind of figured that might be part of the problem. I’m still guilty of it myself at times and you’re a better ballstriker than I am. I imagine the temptation to go for the flag grows as you get more control over your wedges. Might want to think about shot selection, too. I don’t know how you typically play short game shots but I see a lot of people default to hitting high pitch shots from basically everywhere, to every hole location, without regard for how the green is contoured and how the ball might release depending on where it lands. I know my short game has been steadily improving from expanding my shot selection, overall. Though to be honest, part of that is from necessity because I was really struggling with pitch shots so I started hitting more chips from everywhere, but it taught me a lot more about how to play short game shots in general. NP man. We’re all learning and improving together. It is a really good tool.
    • 2 rounds this weekend, one at my home course and another course that I know well.   Played well for 3 of the 4 nines.    Ended up with an 80 and an 88.  Breaking it down by 9, it was 38, 42, 41, and a tough 47 where I somehow ended up with chipping/pitching shanks where I dropped at least 6 strokes on the last 6 holes.
    • Yikes, how time flies. Here we are, almost ten years later. After prioritizing family life and other things for a long time, I'm finally ready to play more golf. Grip: I came across some topics on grip and think my grip has been a bit too palmy, especially the left hand. I'm trying to get it more in the fingers and less diagonal. Setup: After a few weeks of playing, this realization came today after watching one of Erik's Covid videos. I've been standing too far from the ball, and that messes up so much. Moved closer on a short practice session and six holes today, and it felt great. It also felt familiar, so I've been there before. I went from chunking the bejesus out the wedges to much better contact. I love changes that involves no moving parts. Just a small correction on the setup and I'm hitting it better and is better suited for working on changes. I'm a few years late, but the Covid series has been very useful to get small details sorted. I've also had to revise ball position. The goal now is back of ball in the middle of the stance as the farthest back with wedges, and progressively moving forward the longer the clubs get. Haven't hit the driver yet, but inside left foot or at the toe I suppose. Full swing: It's not terrible. I noticed my hands were too low, so got that to work on. Weight forward. More of the same stuff from earlier days. Swing path is now out-in and I want the push-draw back. When I get some videos it'll be easier to tell. I've also had this idea that my tempo or flow/rhythm could improve. It's always felt rushed around the end of the backswing into the transition, where things don't line up as they should. A short pause as things settle before starting the downswing. Some lessons might be in order. Chipping and pitching: A 12-hole round this week demonstrated a severe need to practice, but also to figure out what the heck I’m trying to do. I stood over the ball with no idea of what I wanted to achieve. On a four meter chip! I was trying the locked wrists technique, which did not work at all. As usual when I need information, I look for something Erik has posted. I’ve seen the Quickie Pitching Video before, but if I got it back then, I’ve forgotten. After reviewing that topic, some other topic about chipping and most importantly, the videos on chip/pitch from his Covid series, I felt like I understood the concept. I love the idea of separating those two by what you are trying to achieve, not by distance or ball flight. With one method you use the leading edge to hit the ball first. With the other, you use the sole to slide it under the ball. I was surprised he said that he went for the pitch 90% of the time while playing. I’ve always been scared of that shot and been thinking I have to hit the ball first. Trying to slide the club under usually ended with a chunked or skulled shot. After practicing in the yard the last days I get it, and see why the pitching motion is more forgiving. It’s astounding how easy the concept and motion is. Kudos to Erik, David and anyone else involved for being an excellent students of the game and teachers. With those two videos, my short game improved leaps and bounds, without even practicing. Just getting the setup right and knowing what motions you are trying to do is a big part of improving. Soft hands and floaty swings feels so much better than a rigid “hinge and hold”, trying to fight gravity and momentum by squeezing the life out of the grip. At least how I took to understand the “hold” part. I also think the chipping motion will help in the full swing. Keeping pressure on the trigger finger to ensure the hands are leading the clubhead and not throwing it at the ball. I've also tried looking in front of the ball at times when chipping, which helps. That's something I've been doing on full swings for a long time, and can make a big difference on the ball flight. Question @iacas: You say in the videos that you want the ball somewhere near the middle of your stance, and that for pitching it's the same. On the videos you got a fairly narrow stance, where inside of the left foot is almost middle of the stance, but the ball looks more inside the left foot than middle of the stance. Is that caused by the filming angle or is the ball more towards the inside of the foot? I often hit chips and pitches from uphill and downhill lies, where a narrow stance would have me fall over. What is your thought process and setup for those shots? The lowpoint follows the upper body, around left armpit IIRC, so a ball position relative to the feet may not be in the same spot relative to the upper body with a wider stance. Practice: I've set up my nets at an indoors location where I can practice at home. I did a quick search on launch monitors (LM), but haven't decided on anything yet. We're probably buying a house in this area in the near future, so I may hold off a purchase until I see what I can get going there. At some point I'd love to get a proper setup with a LM that can be used as a simulator. Outdoors golf is not an option 4-6 months a year here, so having an indoors option would be great. That would also be a place to use the longer clubs. My nearest course is a shorter six hole course where I don't use anything longer than a 21º utility iron. To play longer 18 hole courses I have to drive 1-1.5 hours each way, which I will do now and then, but not regularly. The LM market has changed a lot since Trackman arrived, and more people are buying them for personal use, but it's still need to spend a lot of money for a decent one that can fi. track club path. The Mevo at £305 could perhaps be something to consider. Maybe they have lowered the price to get out units before a new model is launched? It is almost six years old, though perhaps modified since then. It's got limited data and obviously isn't an option as a simulator, but could provide some data when hitting into a net. I'd have to read more about it first. It has to be good enough to be useful for indoors practice. As long as I frequently hit balls on the range or course, I'll get feedback on any changes there.
    • I'm pretty good at picking targets with mid/long irons in hand, but yes lately I have been getting more aggressive than I should be, especially from 100-150. The 50-100 deficiency is mainly distance control, working on that mechanically with Evolvr, but the 100-150 is definitely a result of poor targets.  6,7,8 iron in my hand I have no problem aiming away from trouble/the flag, hitting a very committed shot to my target, but give me PW, GW, and some reason I think I need to go right at it (even though I know I shouldn't). Like here from my last round. 175 left on a short par 5 to a back right flag. Water short right and bunker long. Perfectly fine lie in sparse rough, between the jumper and downwind playing for about 10yds of help. I knew to not aim at the flag here, aimed 40 feet left of it, hit my 165 shot exactly where I was looking, easy 2 putt birdie.   But then there's this one. I had 120 left from the fairway to a semi-tucked front left flag. Not a ton of trouble around the green but the left and back rough does fall off steeper than short/right rough. For some reason I aimed right at this flag with my 120yd shot, hit it the exact proper distance but pulled it 5yds left and had a tough short sided chip. Did all I could to chip it to 8 feet and missed the putt for a bad bogey. Had I aimed directly at the middle of the green maybe 5yds right of the flag, a perfectly straight shot leaves me 20 feet tops for birdie and that same pulled shot that I hit would have left me very close to the hole.    So yeah I think the 50-100 is distance control and the 100-150 is absolutely picking better targets. I have good feels and am strong with distance control on those I just need to allow for a bigger dispersion.    This view is helpful. For the Under 25yds my proximity is almost double from the rough vs the fairway which reinforces that biggest weakness right now being inside 25yds from the rough. But then interestingly enough in the 25-50yds I'm almost equal proximity from fairway and rough, so it looks like I need to work on under 25yds from the rough and then 25-50 from the fairway. The bunker categories are only 1 attempt each so not worried about those.   Thanks as always for the insight, it's been helpful. I'm really liking ShotScope so far.
    • Wordle 1,053 4/6 🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨 🟨🟨⬜🟨⬜ 🟨⬜🟩⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...