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Ground Under Repair/Abnormal Ground Condition Question

Odogesq

By Odogesq,
in Rules of Golf

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Odogesq Established Member

Odogesq

Played a round a couple weeks ago and someone hit a ball into what appeared to be a trench, approximately 1 foot wide, and 2 feet deep.  The trench was located in the side of a hill that lead up to the green.  There were no markers indicating the hazard, it was simply a giant hole in the ground from which it was impossible for the person to hit out of because his golf club would have had to be below the ground in order to even attempt to strike the ball, let alone make a backswing.  We did not know whether the ball rolled in or whether it simply landed in the trench.

What is the correct ruling under these conditions?

In My Bag:

:tmade: 9.5˚ Rocketballz | :callaway: 15˚ X-Hot 3 Wood :tmade: ran TP (3-PW) | :vokey: Vokey 52˚ & 56˚ | :odyssey: White Smoke MC-72 

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Odogesq Established Member

Odogesq

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Definitely not a drain. It really looked like the ground was simply not maintained and the trench/hole formed naturally.

In My Bag:

:tmade: 9.5˚ Rocketballz | :callaway: 15˚ X-Hot 3 Wood :tmade: ran TP (3-PW) | :vokey: Vokey 52˚ & 56˚ | :odyssey: White Smoke MC-72 

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Odogesq Established Member

Odogesq

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Originally Posted by Rulesman

If it was not man-made there would be no relief unless there was a local rule published that declared it GUR.

Wow.  So in other words, if your ball lands in a giant hole that is not man made and not marked as a hazard, you have to play it where it lies?  Could you take an unplayable penalty and then take relief with the stroke penalty?

In My Bag:

:tmade: 9.5˚ Rocketballz | :callaway: 15˚ X-Hot 3 Wood :tmade: ran TP (3-PW) | :vokey: Vokey 52˚ & 56˚ | :odyssey: White Smoke MC-72 

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Yes. But playing under rule 28 is not in fact called 'taking relief'.

Isn't it relief under penalty?  You are still getting relief from the condition, but you are just being charged a stroke for the privilege.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Dormie1360 Great Member

Dormie1360

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Isn't it relief under penalty?  You are still getting relief from the condition, but you are just being charged a stroke for the privilege.

Under Rule 28, the word relief is not used in the rule, nor can I find it used in the decision section.  This is different than Rule 26 where the word relief is used in rule 26-1 (penalty) as well as Rules 24 and 25 (no penalty).  (obstructions and abnormal ground conditions).

So if the ditch were a hazard, the golfer would be taking relief with a one stroke penalty.  Deeming a ball unplayable he must proceed  with his options incurring a one stroke penalty.

Not 100% sure why it's this way, but I'm guessing there's a reason.  Obviously doesn't  change the ruling, however.

Regards,

John

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David in FL Incredible Member

David in FL

Under Rule 28, the word relief is not used in the rule, nor can I find it used in the decision section.  This is different than Rule 26 where the word relief is used in rule 26-1 (penalty) as well as Rules 24 and 25 (no penalty).  (obstructions and abnormal ground conditions). So if the ditch were a hazard, the golfer would be taking relief with a one stroke penalty.  Deeming a ball unplayable he must proceed  with his options incurring a one stroke penalty. Not 100% sure why it's this way, but I'm guessing there's a reason.  Obviously doesn't  change the ruling, however.

Count me as another who didn't understand this distinction. Now, how to incorporate this into a bet with my golf buddies.....it's gotta be worth something! :-)

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

uote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Isn't it relief under penalty?  You are still getting relief from the condition, but you are just being charged a stroke for the privilege.

Under Rule 28, the word relief is not used in the rule, nor can I find it used in the decision section.  This is different than Rule 26 where the word relief is used in rule 26-1 (penalty) as well as Rules 24 and 25 (no penalty).  (obstructions and abnormal ground conditions).

So if the ditch were a hazard, the golfer would be taking relief with a one stroke penalty.  Deeming a ball unplayable he must proceed  with his options incurring a one stroke penalty.

Not 100% sure why it's this way, but I'm guessing there's a reason.  Obviously doesn't  change the ruling, however.

I guess that what you say is true in a way, because under Rule 28 you are not guaranteed relief the way you are under Rule 26.  However, if the procedure is applied in a logical manner, then the end result is that you gain relief from the condition in most situations.  But I guess I'd have to agree that "taking relief" is not quite what you are doing under Rule 28.  You are following a set penalty procedure, and if relief is the ultimate result, then you have achieved your intent in applying the rule.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Odogesq Established Member

Odogesq

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That should be the word of the day. Had to look it up.

In My Bag:

:tmade: 9.5˚ Rocketballz | :callaway: 15˚ X-Hot 3 Wood :tmade: ran TP (3-PW) | :vokey: Vokey 52˚ & 56˚ | :odyssey: White Smoke MC-72 

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zeg Great Member

zeg

Originally Posted by Odogesq

Wow.  So in other words, if your ball lands in a giant hole that is not man made and not marked as a hazard, you have to play it where it lies?  Could you take an unplayable penalty and then take relief with the stroke penalty?


Yep. It's actually weirder. If your ball rolls into a hole made by a mole, you get relief.

If the hole was made by a dog? No relief.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

  • Administrator
Originally Posted by zeg

Yep. It's actually weirder. If your ball rolls into a hole made by a mole, you get relief.

If the hole was made by a dog? No relief.

You get relief if the word "dog" has the word "prairie" in front of it. :)

  • Upvote 1

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Dormie1360 Great Member

Dormie1360

Section II – Definitions

Abnormal Ground Conditions

An “ abnormal ground condition ” is any casual water , ground under repair or hole, cast or runway on the course made by a burrowing animal , a reptile or a bird .

Burrowing Animal

A “ burrowing animal ” is an animal (other than a worm, insect or the like) that makes a hole for habitation or shelter, such as a rabbit, mole, groundhog, gopher or salamander.

Note: A hole made by a non-burrowing animal, such as a dog, is not an abnormal ground condition unless marked or declared as ground under repair .

Regards,

John

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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Bad dog!  No kibble for you.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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  • 1 month later...
stangmark Member

stangmark

Without markings or officials, simply declare the hole as man/animal made and take free relief---and let the course manage know it exists.  Give yourself a stroke if the course manager declares it an intended part of the course.

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Rulesman Great Member

Rulesman

Originally Posted by stangmark

Without markings or officials, simply declare the hole as man/animal made and take free relief---and let the course manage know it exists.  Give yourself a stroke if the course manager declares it an intended part of the course.

If it is not marked or if there is no local rule posted, play it as it lies or declare it unplayable and proceed under rule 28 with a penalty. The relief options under 25-2 are not the same.

This is supposed to be a Rules forum not 'do as you please'.

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