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Direct Hazard Question

Conor

By Conor,
in Rules of Golf

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Conor Member

Conor

Me and my golf coach were talking today about a situation one of the players on our team got in involving a yellow staked, direct hazard.

The hole was a par 3, with water in front of the green and behind, both marked with yellow stakes. The player hit the ball into the hazard behind the green, or the one furthest out. They then weren't sure how this would be ruled and asked some coaches observing near by, and they didn't have a first clue. So they just re-teed and played it as if it went OB.

If that were me playing I think the correct way to play would be to drop the ball however far back I wanted, being a direct hazard, not lateral. But then, technically, I would be able to drop right on the green if I wanted too.

What would be the correct ruling on this scenario according to the USGA rules? It seems like it should be obvious, but it escapes me.

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Golfingdad Incredible Member

Golfingdad

Originally Posted by Conor

Me and my golf coach were talking today about a situation one of the players on our team got in involving a yellow staked, direct hazard.

The hole was a par 3, with water in front of the green and behind, both marked with yellow stakes. The player hit the ball into the hazard behind the green, or the one furthest out. They then weren't sure how this would be ruled and asked some coaches observing near by, and they didn't have a first clue. So they just re-teed and played it as if it went OB.

If that were me playing I think the correct way to play would be to drop the ball however far back I wanted, being a direct hazard, not lateral. But then, technically, I would be able to drop right on the green if I wanted too.

What would be the correct ruling on this scenario according to the USGA rules? It seems like it should be obvious, but it escapes me.

The direct line doesn't go from where you entered a hazard towards where you hit from.  It goes from where you entered the hazard on a line through the hole - the other direction .  As in ... not nearer the hole than where it crossed into the water.  So, basically, he would have to go around to the other side of that hazard.

Re-teeing is ALWAYS an option, and in this case, without knowing more about the layout of the hole, was quite possibly the best option.

EDIT:  It's also possible a hole like this has a drop area somewhere, in which case that would be another option.

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MyrtleBeachGolf Great Member

MyrtleBeachGolf

I'm no rules expert, but it would seem odd to me that a water hazard behind the green is marked with yellow stakes. My understanding is that water hazards you must hit over on your way to the green are marked yellow. I would think a water hazard over the back of the green would be marked red (lateral hazard).
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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I'm no rules expert, but it would seem odd to me that a water hazard behind the green is marked with yellow stakes. My understanding is that water hazards you must hit over on your way to the green are marked yellow. I would think a water hazard over the back of the green would be marked red (lateral hazard).

Depends on the intent of the designer.  Think of the 17th at Sawgrass - yellow all the way around.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Conor Member

Conor

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I'm no rules expert, but it would seem odd to me that a water hazard behind the green is marked with yellow stakes. My understanding is that water hazards you must hit over on your way to the green are marked yellow. I would think a water hazard over the back of the green would be marked red (lateral hazard).

If it was marked lateral then how would you abide by the "two club lengths no closer to the hole" rule? I'd think you would have to go to the other side of the hazard but then your not playing on the point of entry. If a course has a hole setup like this then I think there should definently be a drop area, like Golfingdad said. As for Sawgrass, you'd think there'd be a drop area somewhere for those of us that would have to get lucky the 6th or 7th try haha.

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MyrtleBeachGolf Great Member

MyrtleBeachGolf

If it was marked lateral then how would you abide by the "two club lengths no closer to the hole" rule? I'd think you would have to go to the other side of the hazard but then your not playing on the point of entry. If a course has a hole setup like this then I think there should definently be a drop area, like Golfingdad said. As for Sawgrass, you'd think there'd be a drop area somewhere for those of us that would have to get lucky the 6th or 7th try haha.

Without us being able to see the actual layout of the hole, it's just up to our imagination as to what it may look like, or how it's staked. There could very easily be a lateral hazard marked in red behind the green where you would be able to drop 2 club lengths from where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard without going closer to the hole. It's possible to move left or right from the margin while actually moving further from the hole. Also, you can move back on a straight line as far back as you want. The line is formed from the hole to where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and extends forever.

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Rulesman Great Member

Rulesman

We are told it was yellow staked behind the hole and that the ball went into that hazard.

The answer is staightforward.

Take a line from the hole, through the point that the ball last crossed the margin of that hazard and drop anywhere on that line on the opposite side of the hazard from the hole.

The only alternative is to play again from where the original stroke was made.

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Rulesman Great Member

Rulesman

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I'm no rules expert, but it would seem odd to me that a water hazard behind the green is marked with yellow stakes. My understanding is that water hazards you must hit over on your way to the green are marked yellow. I would think a water hazard over the back of the green would be marked red (lateral hazard).

Lateral means parallel to the line of play, normally alongside the fairway.

A “ lateral water hazard ” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib .

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luu5 Dedicated Member

luu5

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Lateral means parallel to the line of play, normally alongside the fairway.

A “lateral water hazard” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib.

In definitions it does not mention anything about being parallel, just not possible or impractical to go around (I know what word lateral means). Many times the water body behind the green is such that going around the WH is not very easy. Limiting playing to just one type of relief from WH is not very good design, imo.

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Conor Member

Conor

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The picture is what the hole looks like, to a point. That ruleing makes sence, except on this hole it is a giant cliff behind the hazard haha. The course was made on an old iron ore mine, so it is rather hilly. I'd have to go back and check, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a drop area on the hole. Seems like a good idea though.
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MyrtleBeachGolf Great Member

MyrtleBeachGolf

Lateral means parallel to the line of play, normally alongside the fairway. A “ lateral water hazard ” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib .

Perfectly understood. My assumption was that behind the green was a water hazard of some sort. And beyond that hazard was a line of thick woods basically marking the end/edge of the hole. It turns out that there isn't woods, but a cliff that makes it impossible to drop behind the hazard that's over back of the green. Same idea. It seems it's not possible to drop behind the hazard. Which is exactly why I suggested it should be marked with red stakes, not yellow.

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Lateral means parallel to the line of play, normally alongside the fairway.

A “

lateral water hazard

” is a

water hazard

or that part of a

water hazard

so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the

Committee

to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the

water hazard

in accordance with Rule

26-Ib

.

Perfectly understood. My assumption was that behind the green was a water hazard of some sort. And beyond that hazard was a line of thick woods basically marking the end/edge of the hole. It turns out that there isn't woods, but a cliff that makes it impossible to drop behind the hazard that's over back of the green. Same idea. It seems it's not possible to drop behind the hazard. Which is exactly why I suggested it should be marked with red stakes, not yellow.

I think a better solution would still be a dropping zone on the tee side of the pond if no reasonable spot exists on the far side.  There are times when there is no possibility of dropping 2 clublengths from the point where the ball last crossed the margin.  It all depends on the angle from the hole and the shape of the margin.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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