Changing lie angle and how it is affecting my swing...

**Valleygolfer** · June 10, 2013

I recently started using a new set of irons and they are set at a stock lie angle. After a fitting I was told I should be at a 1.5 degree upright angle. I had been using a 2.5 degree flat lie prior. Well I have been changing my stance to accommodate an more upright one but it is uncomfortable and I am hitting a lot of fat shots, which I believe now maybe due to returning to my lower stance on the return swing.

I had been using the 2.5 flats for about 3-4 years and the stance I had was comfortable and plenty of distance however a flatter swing. I didn't notice any consistent misses and was a pretty solid ball striker last year. Is it worth messing with? I am a little frustrated with the way it is going and do not get enough practice in to help get adjusted to the angle. The upright stance feels awkward and somewhat unbalanced. I expected that it would and these changes take time. I used the lie board to hit the the clubs with and as long as I stay upright I am fine with the sole impact. I think I still dip to my original stance too often.

Fitters any opinions? Like I said I hit good distance with the 2.5 angle, seemed accurate but very high ball flight though. What would benefit me to go to this more upright stance? Lower trajectory?

TIA

**mvmac** · June 10, 2013

Did you hit your 2.5 flat irons on a lie board? A better way I've been told to fit lie angles is to draw a vertical line on the back of a ball with a sharpie and if the mark on the face isnt vertical, you need to adjust the lie angle. General rule is, if your line looks like 11:00 the lie is too upright, if it looks like 1:00 lie angle is too flat.

**Valleygolfer** · June 10, 2013

Originally Posted by mvmac

Did you hit your 2.5 flat irons on a lie board? A better way I've been told to fit lie angles is to draw a vertical line on the back of a ball with a sharpie and if the mark on the face isnt vertical, you need to adjust the lie angle. If your line looks like 11:00 the lie is too upright, If it looks like 1:00 lie angle is too flat.

I did originally with my natural stance. I will have to try that method. I am just having a time of it with the upright stance.

**mvmac** · June 10, 2013

You said you hit the ball high, solid and good distances with the flatter irons, seems like it's not worth messing with.

**Valleygolfer** · June 10, 2013

Originally Posted by mvmac

You said you hit the ball high, solid and good distances with the flatter irons, seems like it's not worth messing with.

That has started to be my consensus. I hope I haven't jacked it up too bad...

**WUTiger** · June 10, 2013

At GolfWorks , they told us that lie angle is very stable in golfers once they start playing. So, a jump from 2.5 flat to 1.5 upright is very strange, unless you had a recent back injury and must stand upright.

A few years ago, I rebuilt my swing and stance to be a bit more upright rather than so crouched. I went from 2 flat to .75 flat in Ping, and moved to standard (no adjustments) in Callaway and Mizuno irons.

For fitting, you can use a impact tape on the sole, and/or a lie board. You need to hit golf balls to determine lie angle - static wrist-to-floor doesn't get it done.

**Valleygolfer** · June 10, 2013

Originally Posted by WUTiger

At GolfWorks, they told us that lie angle is very stable in golfers once they start playing. So, a jump from 2.5 flat to 1.5 upright is very strange, unless you had a recent back injury and must stand upright.

A few years ago, I rebuilt my swing and stance to be a bit more upright rather than so crouched. I went from 2 flat to .75 flat in Ping, and moved to standard (no adjustments) in Callaway and Mizuno irons.

For fitting, you can use a impact tape on the sole, and/or a lie board. You need to hit golf balls to determine lie angle - static wrist-to-floor doesn't get it done.

Well I would agree with that. Tonight I went out with my old irons and really only hit one fat shot which was super nice after hitting about one every 2 holes on average previously for the last 4 weeks. Hit nice accurate shots too. I don't think I am going to mess with the lie angle.

**Lihu** · June 12, 2013

I am starting to swing more upright as well, but even with a flatter swing I hit the lie board with about 2 degrees flat. Every time I hit off a mat it feels like there is no follow through energy getting into the ball, and it feels like e club is dragging through the shot. Which leads me to think that you could lose distance if the club is too flat. Is what I am feeling more or less what is happening?

**WUTiger** · June 12, 2013

For right-handed golfers:

If the club is too flat, the clubface points slightly to the right at impact, costing you distance.
If club is too upright, the cluface points slightly to left at impact, which costs distance because you're delofting the club and not getting ball up enough.

As for club "dragging through the shot," this may be a problem of poor weight transfer on downswing. Often, one's posture at set-up can hold back good weight transfer. A pro could could look at your stance and your "trigger move" and see if this is a problem.

Take a lesson before you go bending your clubs. A half hour with a pro can be really enlightening.

**bobsuruncle** · June 12, 2013

Originally Posted by mvmac

Did you hit your 2.5 flat irons on a lie board? A better way I've been told to fit lie angles is to draw a vertical line on the back of a ball with a sharpie and if the mark on the face isnt vertical, you need to adjust the lie angle. General rule is, if your line looks like 11:00 the lie is too upright, if it looks like 1:00 lie angle is too flat.

thank you, I'll try this great tip ...

**Lihu** · June 12, 2013

Originally Posted by WUTiger

For right-handed golfers:

If the club is too flat, the clubface points slightly to the right at impact, costing you distance.

If club is too upright, the cluface points slightly to left at impact, which costs distance because you're delofting the club and not getting ball up enough.

As for club "dragging through the shot," this may be a problem of poor weight transfer on downswing. Often, one's posture at set-up can hold back good weight transfer. A pro could could look at your stance and your "trigger move" and see if this is a problem.

Take a lesson before you go bending your clubs. A half hour with a pro can be really enlightening.

Good points. Thanks.

***iacas*** · June 12, 2013

Originally Posted by WUTiger

For right-handed golfers:

If the club is too flat, the clubface points slightly to the right at impact, costing you distance.

If club is too upright, the cluface points slightly to left at impact, which costs distance because you're delofting the club and not getting ball up enough.

It takes a hell of a lot of a difference in the lie angle to affect the LOFT on the shot.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

Even a 25° club which is 4° too flat or too upright sees less than 2° of LATERAL alignment error, and much, much less than that in the amount the loft changes.

Lie angles don't matter as much as people think. It takes a BIG difference from the ideal lie angle and the actual lie angle to matter much.

**Lihu** · June 12, 2013

Originally Posted by iacas

It takes a hell of a lot of a difference in the lie angle to affect the LOFT on the shot.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

Even a 25° club which is 4° too flat or too upright sees less than 2° of LATERAL alignment error, and much, much less than that in the amount the loft changes.

Lie angles don't matter as much as people think. It takes a BIG difference from the ideal lie angle and the actual lie angle to matter much.

So, my problem is not that I pull or push, I hit pretty straight. It's just that sometimes, if I hit slightly thin then the ball goes with much more zing than my normal shot.

I was hoping to be able to reproduce that feel more often (like every shot).

I did a lie board test and the tape was scuffed almost at the toe of the club (if I use the center of the grooves at the bottom for reference) then the scuff is centered more than 3/4 of the way to the toe. Would this reduce the power from the shot?

**Lihu** · June 13, 2013

I just had the lie adjusted on my irons. There is no more of that drag feeling. The balls possibly hit a tiny bit further, but the main thing is that the shots feel "cleaner".

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