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New drivers that have draw/fade adjustments

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Just seen a SLDR commercial. On the bottom of the club you can slide something, I'm assuming a weight, that causes/promotes the face to either be open or closed at impact. My question is, isn't this old ball flight law assumptions? The face, opened or closed doesn't cause draws or fades. The swing path does! So are major manufacturers of golf clubs still ignorant to the new ball flight laws?
post #2 of 27
Swing path alone does not create draws/fades. The difference between the path and face does. The greater the difference, the greater the curvature.
post #3 of 27
The weight doesn't really affect the face angle, it just moves the COG.

So if the weight is near the heel and you hit the center of the club face, it'll act like a toe strike. Gear effect will put some sidespin on the ball.
post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

Swing path alone does not create draws/fades. The difference between the path and face does. The greater the difference, the greater the curvature.

I understand this obviously but swing path makes the shape. face makes it a push/pull. Path has way more role in draw/fade than face.
post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
All I know is I can set my driver to Max draw setting and hit a slice and then set it to max fade and hit a hook. I'm convinced this is just a marketing gimmick and really had no role at all in helping amateur swings. If they had some mechanism in the club that could somehow miraculously fix path then that would be cool.
post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

Swing path alone does not create draws/fades. The difference between the path and face does. The greater the difference, the greater the curvature.

I understand this obviously but swing path makes the shape. face makes it a push/pull. Path has way more role in draw/fade than face.

Path does not have more of a role. A difference between the two is a difference. You could really exaggerate an inside out path, but if the face matches you would still have a ball with no curve.
post #7 of 27

I think that up to a certain swing speed the adjustments are useless, unless you hit it on the sweet spot.

post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
@jamo changing the COG to induce gear spin, either draw spin or fade spin, is how it works?
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

Path does not have more of a role. A difference between the two is a difference. You could really exaggerate an inside out path, but if the face matches you would still have a ball with no curve.
which is exactly what I just said. The path works the ball the faces pushes or pulls. If you work the ball the path had everything to do with it.
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post

@jamo changing the COG to induce gear spin, either draw spin or fade spin, is how it works?

Yup. They don't change the COG much (those weights are small and not particularly dense), and if you don't make consistent contact you probably won't see much of a difference, but that's how it works.
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post

which is exactly what I just said. The path works the ball the faces pushes or pulls. If you work the ball the path had everything to do with it.
You can't hit a draw with an outside in path. At Any rate kinda getting off topic. I'm full aware of modern ball flight laws. Maybe my posts are a little confusing...a1_smile.gif
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post

which is exactly what I just said. The path works the ball the faces pushes or pulls. If you work the ball the path had everything to do with it.
You can't hit a draw with an outside in path. At Any rate kinda getting off topic. I'm full aware of modern ball flight laws. Maybe my posts are a little confusing...a1_smile.gif

You certainly can hit a draw with an outside in path. Path 3 degrees left, face 6 degrees left. Ball would start left and draw further left. Pull draw.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post



which is exactly what I just said. The path works the ball the faces pushes or pulls. If you work the ball the path had everything to do with it.

 



To work the ball you have to have both. If the path is on one line and the club face is on another line the ball is going to curve. The more the face is open or closed to whatever line the path is, the more it's going to curve.

The thing the "new ball flight laws" clarified is that the path doesn't determine the starting direction hardly at all. (Which anybody should have figured the first time they hit a tree trying it the old way).
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
I know this guys. Let me just reiterate, swing path works the ball as long as your face is open/closed to your path. If your face Squares to the path it causes push and pulls based off what your swing path was.
post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

You certainly can hit a draw with an outside in path. Path 3 degrees left, face 6 degrees left. Ball would start left and draw further left. Pull draw.
ok, I thought that would be a pull slice. A assumed a pull draw would be path 3 degrees right and face 6 degrees left.
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

You certainly can hit a draw with an outside in path. Path 3 degrees left, face 6 degrees left. Ball would start left and draw further left. Pull draw.

@14ledo81
Ball curves away from path and face starts initial direction. With your example the ball would start left and curve right. 6 degree left face starts ball or as a pull and 3 degree left path causes ball to curve right. That my friends is a pull slice. Am I wrong? If so what am I missing? ?
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post


ok, I thought that would be a pull slice. A assumed a pull draw would be path 3 degrees right and face 6 degrees left.

 

No that would be a pull draw, the ball starts left because the face points left, and curves left because the face is closed to the path. 

 

If the face is close to the path you get draw or hook spin. If the face is open to the path then you get fade or slice spin. Depending on how much will determine if the ball starts left or right or curves more left or more right, or curves away from the path. 

 

The only time a ball will curve away from the path is if the face is less right than the path or less left than the path. So in between the path and zero. (these are optimal conditions)

 

Also please stop creating a new post for every quote. You can hit quote multiple times. It looks cleaner, thanks.

 

 

As for moving the CG. The further the CG gets way from the ball's impact position on the face the more spin it imparts. So if the CG is moved towards the heel, then if you toe it you will get more draw spin than if the CG was in the center. This is because the face of the driver is bulged (curved). So what the SLDR does, it moves the CG down and forward, basically anything hit above the CG will take backspin off the ball. So centered hits have less backspin, and very high hits have very little backspin.

 

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/gearEffect.php

post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark View Post


ok, I thought that would be a pull slice. A assumed a pull draw would be path 3 degrees right and face 6 degrees left.

 

You can look at "pull" as having a couple definitions.  Either starting left of your body lines or left of your target.  So face 1* left, path 3* right, would be a pull hook as would face 6* left, path 3* left.  Face is closed to the swing path in both examples.

 

In terms of gear effect, original point of this thread I would watch this video.  Kind of a good recap on how moving the weight can change the cog of the club head.  So moving the weight more towards the heel shifts the cog more towards the heel.  So a center hit with a driver like that, effectively acts like a toe hit, so for a guy that swings across the ball, ball will curve to the right less or might even draw.

 

There is vertical gear effect as well, low on the face, low launch high spin, high on the face, high launch low spin.  Reason why most companies want to lower the cog for their clubs.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

 

 

 

As for moving the CG. The further the CG gets way from the ball's impact position on the face the more spin it imparts. So if the CG is moved towards the heel, then if you toe it you will get more draw spin than if the CG was in the center. This is because the face of the driver is bulged (curved). So what the SLDR does, it moves the CG down and forward, basically anything hit above the CG will take backspin off the ball. So centered hits have less backspin, and very high hits have very little backspin.

 

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/gearEffect.php

 

The bulge just allows the shots to start more left or right.  There is gear effect on irons as well.

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