Aimpoint Green Reading, Extreme Slope

[inthecup]

I took the "Classic" Aimpoint class with the book.  My course has greens with extreme slopes, 6-7% almost everywhere.  Is there a way to translate the book into these extreme slopes?  Does Aimpoint express address this?

[boogielicious]

  On 6/14/2019 at 8:29 PM, inthecup said:

I took the "Classic" Aimpoint class with the book.  My course has greens with extreme slopes, 6-7% almost everywhere.  Is there a way to translate the book into these extreme slopes?  Does Aimpoint express address this?

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I think this is where Express helps. You just use more fingers. With the Midpoint read method with the chart, I would just add a 3 and 2 read to get 5, etc. 

[grubby98]

No way they have holes on that much slope, unless they are slow greens, the ball wouldn’t stop 

[iacas]

What course?

[inthecup]

The course is Indianwood Golf and Country club in Lake Orion MI.  The played the Senior US open there a few years ago.  I went out with a digital level and measured it.  It’s not uncommon to have a putt that breaks 3 feet.   I attached a photo of the green reading book from the open.  I added the numbers that represent % slope.  The greens are not slow but you can’t run them up to 11,   The ball won’t stop.  

[iacas]

The US Senior Open was there not too long ago right?

They are not that steep where you’re gonna have 6s and 7s all day. AimPoint Express works fine.

[inthecup]

  On 6/15/2019 at 11:22 AM, iacas said:

The US Senior Open was there not too long ago right?

They are not that steep where you’re gonna have 6s and 7s all day. AimPoint Express works fine.

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No it won't be 6-7 all day but many will be over the 4% the the classic Aimpoint goes to .

[iacas]

  On 6/17/2019 at 12:42 PM, inthecup said:

No it won't be 6-7 all day but many will be over the 4% the the classic Aimpoint goes to .

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Yeah, I don't know man. I helped a player prep for the U.S. Senior Open there and I don't remember many putts that were 4%+. You'll get them occasionally, but you need to be 90° to a 4% slope to get a 4% read, after all. Or at an angle approaching 50, 70… 90 to a higher slope to get 4%.

Do you have a specific green you could talk about? I mean, we may as well, since the original question has been answered already.

[saevel25]

Even when you play old courses, which required the slope for drainage, it's rare to find greens with a lot of slopes above 5%. You might get a mound here or there, or maybe a tier, but for the most part the majority of the greens would be 1-4%.

[inthecup]

  On 6/18/2019 at 11:44 AM, saevel25 said:

Even when you play old courses, which required the slope for drainage, it's rare to find greens with a lot of slopes above 5%. You might get a mound here or there, or maybe a tier, but for the most part the majority of the greens would be 1-4%.

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I have been playing this course for 11 years, yes every putt is not above 4.  But if you are out of position you can get slopes above 4 for sure.   The new greens keeper is putting pins in new spots.  If it ever stops raining he will find that they are not playable.  The ball will roll back to your feet.  

 

These are difficult greens.  They are not subtle.  

[saevel25]

Yea,  but the vast majority of the green is 1-3%. 

[inthecup]

  On 6/18/2019 at 12:21 PM, saevel25 said:

Yea,  but the vast majority of the green is 1-3%. 

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Where on 9 is that?   If you have to putt through 6 using AIMpoint classic its 6.  I don’t understand express, perhaps that is different.  

[iacas]

Are there any photos of nine online? I don’t remember anything like that.

And those are percent slope, to be clear?

I also don’t understand the chart for 9. 15, 6.8, 10? So close?

[saevel25]

  On 6/18/2019 at 12:36 PM, inthecup said:

If you have to putt through 6 using AIMpoint classic its 6.  I don’t understand express, perhaps that is different.  

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It's the same.

  On 6/18/2019 at 12:36 PM, inthecup said:

Where on 9 is that?

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First, those published charts are not that good. Where are the delineations between slopes on the bottom tier? There isn't any. It's pretty much a useless diagram other than maybe for approach shots. I would never use that for green reading.

[inthecup]

  On 6/18/2019 at 12:46 PM, iacas said:

Are there any photos of nine online? I don’t remember anything like that.

And those are percent slope, to be clear?

I also don’t understand the chart for 9. 15, 6.8, 10? So close?

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I think the 15 is a typo. I tried to take a photos.   It does not translate well.  Here is three, camera level standing at the bottom.  9 is uphill the whole way. If you get above the hole and they get the green speeds up you are in trouble.  

[iacas]

  On 6/18/2019 at 1:04 PM, inthecup said:

I think the 15 is a typo.

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I think the 10 might be as well.

  On 6/18/2019 at 1:04 PM, inthecup said:

I tried to take a photos.   It does not translate well.  Here is three, camera level standing at the bottom.

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Three I can believe. That green isn't that bad, and it has a tier in it, which you're almost never putting "across" (sideways).

  On 6/18/2019 at 1:04 PM, inthecup said:

9 is uphill the whole way. If you get above the hole and they get the green speeds up you are in trouble.  

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I still don't quite believe that it's got large areas north of 6.

The 11th green at Lake View CC has 4-7% on the whole green, and yeah, above the hole you can be toast.

[inthecup]

  On 6/18/2019 at 2:33 PM, iacas said:

I think the 10 might be as well.

Three I can believe. That green isn't that bad, and it has a tier in it, which you're almost never putting "across" (sideways).

I still don't quite believe that it's got large areas north of 6.

The 11th green at Lake View CC has 4-7% on the whole green, and yeah, above the hole you can be toast.

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I found some photos which might remind you what 9 is.

Here is a view from the tee.  Right is OB, It is a dog leg right.  If you go over the tree's you can aim to the front of the green.

Here is a view from the green back left of the green at the tee,  The trees on the left third are the ones you have to come over to aim to the valley

Here is the green, hard to understand the slope from the photo, that's the men's grill in the background. At the annual invite the crazyness that goes on in the grill at those windows is hilarious. They bet on everything, who will pull the pin, puts chips, sand shots all of it.

A better shot of the green, the slope does not translate well into a photo.

Since I am posting photos, I was a photographer at the event.

We have heather, Fred not the most pleasant guy you ever met. 

This is a mild green, 14

All the player (except one) were great guys happy to be there really a lot of fun.

Funk with his son on the bag

Lehman

Watson

 

 

[iacas]

  On 6/18/2019 at 4:10 PM, inthecup said:

I found some photos which might remind you what 9 is.

A better shot of the green, the slope does not translate well into a photo.

Since I am posting photos, I was a photographer at the event.

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Yep, I remember it now. Tommy Armour III in our practice round couldn't keep it on the planet from the tee box with a hybrid.

I don't think the slopes are quite that severe. If they were there would not be more than like 1 or 2 pinnable positions.

  On 6/18/2019 at 12:10 PM, inthecup said:

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You have a "4.5" marked in an area with almost no arrows, and a 3.6 nearby, neither of which are really even pinnable themselves. The 5 is not pinnable.

I'm not there, and you are, so while I want to believe you… I basically have a hard time remembering anything anywhere near this severe or that a set of greens like this could exist at anything above even about 7.5 stimp or so.