Let's Toughen These Courses Up for the Pros

[Rick Graham]

I am sick of seeing 20 under par winning tournaments, let's dry these greens out and grow some rough for god's sake, these touring pro's need to be challenged more.  I just got done watching the 1998 US Open, hard greens thick rough and narrow fairways is what i love to watch, I don't like birdie fests.  Now back in the 1990's the tour had all sorts of course setups throughout the year, unfortunately now the players have too much say into what the course setup will be and they don't like to play tough courses--back in the day, you had to WIN to make the big money, now you can cruise around in 20th place and be a millionaire.

[iacas]

I'm not.

And if you have 50 U.S. Opens, do you really even have one U.S. Open?

Birdies are fun.

[ncates00]

5 minutes ago, Rick Graham said:

I am sick of seeing 20 under par winning tournaments, let's dry these greens out and grow some rough for god's sake, these touring pro's need to be challenged more.  I just got done watching the 1998 US Open, hard greens thick rough and narrow fairways is what i love to watch, I don't like birdie fests.  Now back in the 1990's the tour had all sorts of course setups throughout the year, unfortunately now the players have too much say into what the course setup will be and they don't like to play tough courses--back in the day, you had to WIN to make the big money, now you can cruise around in 20th place and be a millionaire.

What does it matter?  I just enjoy watching good golf.  I don't really care what the score is.  In my opinion, most people who want "harder tests" for the pros, just want to see more attainable scores that they think they can relate to, when in reality, even on the "easy courses" that the pros play those same folks would never score even remotely close to how the pros score.  They're really that good.

And what's wrong with making money?  Everyone wants to do that.  I say more power to them for having the ability to do so.  As with the other point you made, a lot of this is just sour grapes and jealousy.

[Rick Graham]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not.

And if you have 50 U.S. Opens, do you really even have one U.S. Open?

Birdies are fun.

i'm not saying every week should be a US Open ( even though now the us open is not really a us open setup in my mind) i remember a time when if you hit a bad shot you were penalized by the course, when you have no rough and soft greens the penalty is not there.

10 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

What does it matter?  I just enjoy watching good golf.  I don't really care what the score is.  In my opinion, most people who want "harder tests" for the pros, just want to see more attainable scores that they think they can relate to, when in reality, even on the "easy courses" that the pros play those same folks would never score even remotely close to how the pros score.  They're really that good.

And what's wrong with making money?  Everyone wants to do that.  I say more power to them for having the ability to do so.  As with the other point you made, a lot of this is just sour grapes and jealousy.

why do you think no one is watching golf now........tv ratings are way down, nobody goes to watch anymore, we want to see a good test.

[mclaren4life]

Ratings are down because there is no Tiger. Plain and simple. Personally I like to watch good golf. It’s had to say watching the US Open is good golf. Often it comes down to who made the least errors as opposed to who played the best. I agree if you don’t hit fairways there should be some punishment but crazy high rough or glass like greens doesn’t equal good golf. I’d you think ratings are down now imagine the ratings with 3 or 4 weeks in a row with a winning score of 2 or 3 under. Nobody would watch that. 

[phillyk]

8 minutes ago, Rick Graham said:

why do you think no one is watching golf now........

Tiger hasn't been playing... Lets see how the memorial shapes up.  

I enjoy a good test, but I enjoy watching them play no matter the conditions.  

[ncates00]

15 minutes ago, Rick Graham said:

why do you think no one is watching golf now........tv ratings are way down, nobody goes to watch anymore, we want to see a good test.

There are lots of reasons for that.  Such simple single-causality reasoning fails to pass muster.  FYI, really low scores aren't something that new.  Jack won the Masters in '65 at -17, Hogan with -14, just to name a couple.  Again, why does it matter what the score is--the point of tournament golf is to shoot the lowest score relative to your competitors, so I fail to see your lust over whether scores are low or not.

Edited July 12, 2020 by ncates00

[ncates00]

@Rick Graham, do you really want to slow down the pace of play even further with thick rough, looking for lost balls, having to chop out, play another shot to the green, etc.?  If you are concerned about having a "test" for the pros, well, we already have it--it's called the PGA Tour.  They battle it out against the best players in the world; that in and of itself is the supreme test, not some tricked up golf course to try to preserve some notion of par.  

Edited July 12, 2020 by ncates00

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Rick Graham said:

i'm not saying every week should be a US Open ( even though now the us open is not really a us open setup in my mind) i remember a time when if you hit a bad shot you were penalized by the course, when you have no rough and soft greens the penalty is not there.

The best two golfers out of 140+ averaged over 67 for four rounds, and you're complaining. The cut came at like -2 or so, and you're complaining.

I'm not in agreement with your complaints. Bad shots are still punished, and there's still rough, and the greens are intentionally softer and slower this week so they can play differently next week.

1 hour ago, Rick Graham said:

why do you think no one is watching golf now........tv ratings are way down, nobody goes to watch anymore, we want to see a good test.

That's not in the top ten reasons why.

[Rick Graham]

Thanks for your opinion guys, good debate, but you haven't convinced me otherwise.  I am not the best golfer but I do enjoy playing tougher courses in my area and most people in my arena are in agreement with me about the tour.  Again I am just stating my opinion which doesn't mean a thing in the long run.

 

[mclaren4life]

It sounds like you already had your mind made up. I promise you if you played any US Open course you would quit your round within 3 holes. You can’t convince me otherwise. 

[ncates00]

15 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

It sounds like you already had your mind made up. I promise you if you played any US Open course you would quit your round within 3 holes. You can’t convince me otherwise. 

I didn't quit when I played Chambers Bay.  I played it right before the 2015 US Open.  Loved every minute of it.  While the conditions were close to what they had at the Open, I played from further up tees ("sand" if I recall correctly).  The hardest thing that took getting used to was how the fairways and greens were non-distinguishable.  I generally aim for the middle of the green on most approach shots unless I have a 9i or less, so it was hard to do that there.

However, your point is well-taken.

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, Rick Graham said:

Thanks for your opinion guys, good debate, but you haven't convinced me otherwise.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I just disagree with you. Did the best golfer win today?

[Rick Graham]

29 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

It sounds like you already had your mind made up. I promise you if you played any US Open course you would quit your round within 3 holes. You can’t convince me otherwise. 

As I said I am not a very good golfer in the grand scheme of things, and you are absolutely correct, sorry to get you so worked up.

 

[mclaren4life]

What did you shoot that day? So putting was no problem? On a course where professionals had an extremely hard time putting? So it was before the open. Similar to this weeks tournament before the memorial so it was most likely easier that what was the actual open course. 

[ncates00]

1 minute ago, mclaren4life said:

What did you shoot that day? So putting was no problem? On a course where professionals had an extremely hard time putting? So it was before the open. Similar to this weeks tournament before the memorial so it was most likely easier that what was the actual open course. 

I'd have to hunt down my scorecard, but it was high 80s-low 90s.  When I played, there were no issues on the green except for one--the par 3 with the tree.  In fact, we couldn't step foot on that green.  We hit our shots and staff folks would retrieve our ball.  They did something like, if you hit the green you got a 2 putt par and if you were inside 10' then you got a birdie.  The reason being was because there was an invasion of a species of grass not native to the course and was wreaking havoc.  They tried to stop the spread.  When I played, the course was beautiful and in great shape.  Rough was tough, but it was an awesome trip.

[Mr22putt]

3 hours ago, Rick Graham said:

I am sick of seeing 20 under par winning tournaments, let's dry these greens out and grow some rough for god's sake, these touring pro's need to be challenged more.  I just got done watching the 1998 US Open, hard greens thick rough and narrow fairways is what i love to watch, I don't like birdie fests.  Now back in the 1990's the tour had all sorts of course setups throughout the year, unfortunately now the players have too much say into what the course setup will be and they don't like to play tough courses--back in the day, you had to WIN to make the big money, now you can cruise around in 20th place and be a millionaire.

When we see total winning scores on the PGA, Champions tour, Euro tour, LPGA, etc is just really demonstrates how good the pros are at ball striking or scrambling.

And most fans like to see birdies, eagles......I bit more exciting to most....same for NHL, MLB, NFL, etc.....no one likes to see low scores.

The PGA pros just play a different game that is SO FREAKIN good....where as the avg male golfer can't break 95 at 6300 yards nor hit their average drives 200+....lots of lousy and old golfers out there.

Even the LPGA pros play a game that 95%+ men would dream to have.

[Rick Graham]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I'm not in agreement with your complaints. Bad shots are still punished, and there's still rough, and the greens are intentionally softer and slower this week so they can play differently next week.

You're right, and I am interested in seeing what changes are made for next weeks setup, I'm sure Jack will let the rough grow a little more and firm up the greens a little if there is not alot of rain this week, unless they are not using all the tee's this week what more can they do?