Improving Lag for Distance

[golf_junkie27]

[*]

Erik

When you make the statement about leaving distance on the table, is that with all irons? Or just your shorter irons? Do you find that there is a certain yardage that you struggle with? Sorry for all the questions. It's just interesting to read how someone with your handicap index admits that there is a deficiency and it's not related to just one aspect.

[iacas]

When you make the statement about leaving distance on the table, is that with all irons? Or just your shorter irons? Do you find that there is a certain yardage that you struggle with?

Mostly with all irons. I could stand to hit down a bit more. I've always been a bit more of a "sweeper" or a "picker" of the golf ball. I'd like to begin hitting down just a wee bit more by maintaining my lag a bit longer.

Moving a tad closer to the ball (probably half an inch) and standing up a bit taller has helped with this. Swing has gotten more upright in the past year, but it was REALLY flat before. Like, so flat I'm not sure how I made contact with the ball sometimes (I'm exaggerating, but not much). BTW, you can have a pretty shitty swing and still be a scratch golfer. You'd be surprised...

[Ben]

iacas, I don't know what thread that quote was from, or if you're still even struggling with this issue, but I'ld like to inject my opinion if I can. Maybe others are facing the same issue...

I was toying around with "lagging hands" a LOT this past year, and ultimately came to the conlcusion that it's just too much a conscious move for my swing. I did gain some yardage, but it was inconsistent. Playing the mini-tours and with players that are longer than me, I learned that I simply needed to take a more aggressive swing. The only conscious swing thought is to keep a nice tempo'd backswing. Trying to force the lag was slowing my swing down because I was focused so much on those hands. So the last month and a half or so, I've started giving the ball a mighty rip. I seem to be crunching my drives. It's the same for my irons. I used to be a club-up and swing easy if I'm in between club guy. But I've found that if I just "man up" and not swing like a pansy, more often than not the shot I thought I'd need a baby 5-iron turned into, "yeah I can rip a 6." I found the same advice in Hogan's Five Lessons. In Lesson 4 The Second Part of the Swing, he makes mention of trying to hit the ball as hard as one can.

I will say this about when I was playing a lag hand swing. I sure did hit some nice, pretty fades all day long. The ball was never going left. There is something to be said for that.

[Richie3Jack]

I was toying around with "lagging hands" a LOT this past year, and ultimately came to the conlcusion that it's just too much a conscious move for my swing. I did gain some yardage, but it was inconsistent. Playing the mini-tours and with players that are longer than me, I learned that I simply needed to take a more aggressive swing. The only conscious swing thought is to keep a nice tempo'd backswing. Trying to force the lag was slowing my swing down because I was focused so much on those hands. So the last month and a half or so, I've started giving the ball a mighty rip. I seem to be crunching my drives. It's the same for my irons. I used to be a club-up and swing easy if I'm in between club guy. But I've found that if I just "man up" and not swing like a pansy, more often than not the shot I thought I'd need a baby 5-iron turned into, "yeah I can rip a 6." I found the same advice in Hogan's Five Lessons. In Lesson 4 The Second Part of the Swing, he makes mention of trying to hit the ball as hard as one can.

I found that lag shouldn't be consciously created. I had a problem with lag and then I learned that I was a little out of sequence on the downswing and lacked hip rotation. Once I started to kick the left knee, then rotate the hips and keep rotating them the lag was created unconsciously as long as I didn't try to bring the hands down too soon. Essentially I found that as long as I was letting the left knee kick and let the hips pretty much initiate the hands coming down that created the lag.

I have found that trying to create lag tends to shut the club face a little. Also, you may be creating lag, but sliding your hips. So the club face opens up with the hip slide and you still have to manipulate the wrists to get the face square at impact...which leads to inconsistency. Just my thoughts. 3JACK

[tm22721]

Once I started to kick the left knee, then rotate the hips and keep rotating them the lag was created unconsciously as long as I didn't try to bring the hands down too soon.

Are you consciously rotating your hips ? The reason I ask is that Ringer promotes pushing off the right foot without initial hip rotation. Because of anatomy, left hip rotates naturally to the rear as weight shifts to left foot.

[iacas]

iacas, I don't know what thread that quote was from, or if you're still even struggling with this issue, but I'ld like to inject my opinion if I can. Maybe others are facing the same issue...

'twas from the 2008 Goals thread. It's off-topic for there but still a valid question, so I moved it to its own thread.

I was toying around with "lagging hands" a LOT this past year, and ultimately came to the conlcusion that it's just too much a conscious move for my swing.

Well see, now that's the thing... I don't want it to be a conscious thing. I'd like to have a little more shaft lean at impact (which isn't even truly "lag"), and I'd like to not have to think about it after I get to a certain point. A lot of it has always been my "divot avoidance" and this year I want to work past/through that. It's like a psychological issue. Even with my wedges I rarely take more than a little scuff of turf.

I found the same advice in Hogan's Five Lessons. In Lesson 4 The Second Part of the Swing, he makes mention of trying to hit the ball as hard as one can.

It's odd, but I found a bit of the same last year. Still didn't improve my lag, but I hit some 7-irons from 180 and the like. I suppose that's simply a matter of "when your swing is on, trust it and have a rip."

Still, I bet your shaft lean isn't as poor as mine at impact. So while you may have had little room to improve your shaft lean, I'm certain I do.

[Leek]

Erik,

The kind of lag you are describing is created by keeping pressure between the shaft and the right forefinger at the first knuckle. This is will creat more of a "hands leading the clubhead" through impact. The easiest way to feel this is to remove your right thumb from the grip when you practice. You will feel pressure in the aforementioned area, and the hand needs to "keep up" with the shaft. After ingraining the feel, try to recreate that feel while practicing with a normal grip.

Another way is to practice with something like a Coke machine behind you (down the line) so that the clubhead would just barely touch the front of it on the backswing. On the downswing, miss the Coke machine.

If anyone wants them, I have several more ways to practice and ingrain that feel/move.

[iacas]

If anyone wants them, I have several more ways to practice and ingrain that feel/move.

No offense intended here, but I didn't ask for the first one. I'm sure you can appreciate that I like to figure things out for myself.

Plus, I doubt I'll be moving any Coke machines onto the range anytime soon.

[Leek]

No offense intended here, but I didn't ask for the first one. I'm sure you can appreciate that I like to figure things out for myself.

Erik, the post was meant for anyone who wanted to increase lag pressure ie. having a more forward shaft attitude through impact.

I agree, the Coke machine thing is tough to do.

[Finn07]

iacas, I don't know what thread that quote was from, or if you're still even struggling with this issue, but I'ld like to inject my opinion if I can. Maybe others are facing the same issue...

I quoted the whole message because I dont know how to do the partial quotes, but I think its awesome that a +1.5 index refers back to Hogans Lessons. Reason I say this is this book is the best golf instruction book ever IMO. I was fighting a dreaded hook last year, read this book and it changed my game probably forever. A little off topic and no response needed, keeping the topic on lagging the club, but I thought that was great.

[Ben]

'twas from the 2008 Goals thread. It's off-topic for there but still a valid question, so I moved it to its own thread.

Tom Watson comes to mind when you mention pick-it-clean type of player. He was known for that. So it's not that bad a thing. In my days of junior golf I was the same way. Now I take some pretty solid divots. To tell you the truth, I really couldn't put a finger on what in my golf swing changed. I just take divots now. Maybe I'm not afraid of the ground? A little lift of my back right before impact before? I do like to stay down in my shots now. As of two weeks ago I started to playing without a tee on tee-shots (unless I was hitting a drive). That has helped my ball-striking greatly. Maybe try that?

It's odd, but I found a bit of the same last year. Still didn't improve my lag, but I hit some 7-irons from 180 and the like. I suppose that's simply a matter of "when your swing is on, trust it and have a rip."

I'm a little confused on what you mean by "club lean"? Like the flex in the shaft created on the downswing?

As far as hitting 7-irons 180, yeah, that's a hell of a lot of fun to try, but, I read a great quote last a month or so to the extent of "golf is not about how far, but about how many." Just find a comfortable balance in your distance control. You've got 14 clubs in your bag, be comfortable in them all. Wow, yeah, breakthrough thought. That's another thing I've learned about playing mini-tours. When I'd get up to a 205+ yard par 3, I'd notice the better players didn't really sweat it. It's just another shot with another club. I don't know if you fear your long irons or not? But, if one actually learns to enjoy hitting them, you won't feel the need to try and pound the beloved little 7-iron from 180. Give me the 6!

[Ben]

I quoted the whole message because I dont know how to do the partial quotes, but I think its awesome that a +1.5 index refers back to Hogans Lessons. Reason I say this is this book is the best golf instruction book ever IMO. I was fighting a dreaded hook last year, read this book and it changed my game probably forever. A little off topic and no response needed, keeping the topic on lagging the club, but I thought that was great.

Like you say, it's the best book there is. Ben Hogan, in my opinion, is the greatest golfer there has been. A true master of the game. And for him to share his ideas only 4 years after arguably one of the best seasons (1953) of a player in golf, achieved after a life threatening car crash... The guy is the man.

[Finn07]

Like you say, it's the best book there is. Ben Hogan, in my opinion, is the greatest golfer there has been. A true master of the game. And for him to share his ideas only 4 years after arguably one of the best seasons (1953) of a player in golf, achieved after a life threatening car crash... The guy is the man.

Could'nt agree with you more. Thats why sometimes when I see people on here asking questions about grip and this and that, I always try to refer them to this book, because if you havent read it you have no idea how informative it is.

Getting back to lag, Ive noticed that if I swing like it says in lesson 4, hit the ball as hard as you can, I find that most of my lag is gone. Even when I turn my left hip immediately to the left. When I slow my swing down and keep "lazy hands" is when I can create the most lag and really take a lot of turf when I hit my irons.

[iacas]

I'm a little confused on what you mean by "club lean"? Like the flex in the shaft created on the downswing?

No. Forward lean of the shaft at impact. Hands ahead of the ball. My hands aren't as far forward as they could or should be.

No offense intended here as well, but I'm not looking for advice here in this thread. I simply wanted to answer the guy's question.

[Shindig]

I quoted the whole message because I dont know how to do the partial quotes

See the words inside the quote markers? Delete the ones you aren't replying to. Honesty requires that you don't substantially change the quote

[SubPar]

Erik, the post was meant for anyone who wanted to increase lag pressure ie. having a more forward shaft attitude through impact.

I hurt my back dragging the Coke machine around. But I did discover that improving early rotation and clearing of the hips naturally promotes better 'lag' in the release of the clubhead.

SubPar

[Ben]

No. Forward lean of the shaft at impact. Hands ahead of the ball. My hands aren't as far forward as they could or should be.

Non taken, I figured that was the case, but I just get carried away with handing out advice some times. Especially when it's something I happen to be working on.

[Finn07]

See the words inside the quote markers? Delete the ones you aren't replying to. Honesty requires that you don't substantially change the quote

Good man, thanks.