Cink DQ'd - crazy rule

[Big_M]

Apparently his ball was laying next to a bunker and he stood in the bunker to play the shot. His next shot landed in another bunker. He then proceeded to rake the bunker he had stood in and go to his ball to play the greenside bunker shot.

Well... later he and Zach Johnson were talking about wierd rules and Zach pointed this one out regarding testing conditions of a hazard 13-4. Cink then thought back and remembered doing this yesterday, problem was he had already signed his card. Result... Cink DQ'd. Many players said they do this on a regular basis without thinking about it.

[r7 425]

Apparently his ball was laying next to a bunker and he stood in the bunker to play the shot. His next shot landed in another bunker. He then proceeded to rake the bunker he had stood in and go to his ball to play the greenside bunker shot.

WOW that makes me sick...Stewart Cink was doing a nice thing by raking the bunker so his caddy would not have to

[larlev]

So it's ok for the caddy to rack and not the player?

[Dent]

Ya i still dont fully understand what he actually got DQ'd for?

That is rediculous.

[Big_M]

Ya i still dont fully understand what he actually got DQ'd for?

he got DQ'd because 13-4

13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not: a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard; b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard. Exceptions: 1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction, in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or (b) places his clubs in a hazard. 2. After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is outside Rule 14 47 the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction. 3. If the player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard, Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made . the problem is... Cink was never in the hazard the first time... he merely stood in it. Therefore, raking would fall under 13-4(a) testing conditions. If he had played the ball from one bunker to the next it would be OK, but since his ball was never in the first bunker, he could not test the conditions of such. There should probably be an exception, but there is not at this time, so he is basically going to be the guinea pig.

[Jimmy]

^ Ah, I understand. I was forgetting that the ball was not originally in the hazard.

Exception 3 makes sense if the ball was originally in the hazard. The stroke from the hazard gives the player information about the condition of the hazard and 13-4a is moot at that point.

[Shindig]

Well... later he and Zach Johnson were talking about wierd rules and Zach pointed this one out regarding testing conditions of a hazard 13-4. Cink then thought back and remembered doing this yesterday, problem was he had already signed his card. Result... Cink DQ'd. Many players said they do this on a regular basis without thinking about it.

The rule makes sense, especially since going from a fairway bunker to a greenside bunker is a different shot. You want solid contact out of a fairway bunker if the lip is low enough. You rarely, if ever, want solid contact out of a greenside bunker. As such, knowing the consistency of the greenside bunker because of where your tee shot landed would be an advantage over hitting the fairway.

I'm not saying this is what Cink intended; in fact, I am 100% certain that this was an honest mistake. Props to him for calling the DQ, although once the situation was known, even if it was known only to Cink, there's no doubt that he would've called the DQ. Edit : Oops! I mis-read what happened and the rule in question. I thought he was in the bunker. In retrospect, I need to learn to read. Please disregard. Thanks.

[dave39]

That is a rule that should be altered. A person shouldn't have to back peddle from one bunker to the next in order to rake where they first hit. As a competitive junior I never saw anyone not rake the bunker just because they hit it into another one. You are not testing the conditions at that point (you already hit a shot so you know how they feel without raking).. the raking is proper etiquete and that rule definitely needs to be adjusted.

[Big_M]

That is a rule that should be altered. A person shouldn't have to back peddle from one bunker to the next in order to rake where they first hit. As a competitive junior I never saw anyone not rake the bunker just because they hit it into another one. You are not testing the conditions at that point (you already hit a shot so you know how they feel without raking).. the raking is proper etiquete and that rule definitely needs to be adjusted.

You CAN rake if you HIT out of the first hazard... just NOT if you only STOOD in the first hazard. But, the rule should probably still be altered.

[dave39]

what's the difference between hitting out of and standing in? I know that if I stand in the trap I get a good feel for the sand but when I hit a ball out of it after standing off to the side on the grass I still get excellent feedback of how the sand is.

[Jimmy]

Can you use a foot to smooth over footprints in this case? Seems reasonable since your feet were already in the bunker anyway.

[Big_M]

what's the difference between hitting out of and standing in? I know that if I stand in the trap I get a good feel for the sand but when I hit a ball out of it after standing off to the side on the grass I still get excellent feedback of how the sand is.

again that's not the issue.... he was standing in the sand playing a ball that was NOT in the sand. Therefore his ball was never in the first hazard and therefore didn't meet the criteria for the exception. I agree that in any of those situations you get a feel for the sand, and THAT is why the rule should be ammended to include

anytime you hit from or take a stance in the first hazard .

[Craig Mac]

So does that mean if you standing in a fairway bunker hitting a ball outside of the bunker and you hit in a green side bunker that you can't rake the fairway bunker until you hit out of the green side bunker?

edit: TV just answered my own question, the above is exactly what happened to Cink. Crazy Rule

[gogolfing]

A silly rule, but another example of why golf is so unique. He calls it on himself and gets D.Q. When I play other sports, guys are doing everything to get something by the refs or umpires. Golf, you police yourself. This is one that should be changed though.

[r7 425]

A silly rule, but another example of why golf is so unique. He calls it on himself and gets D.Q. When I play other sports, guys are doing everything to get something by the refs or umpires. Golf, you police yourself. This is one that should be changed though.

Great Point--i dont know any other sports where a guy would own up to a penalty--lets give credit to Stewart Cink--he did what a gentleman would do--and he forfeited his paycheck

[Craig Mac]

With 1.5 million this year he can't be too dissapointed, but he has got to be feeling a little run down with coming up just short of a win in some big events lately and now a DQ.

[Crafty]

So it's ok for the caddy to rack and not the player?

No, the caddy can't rake either. As weird as it may sound, the caddy is considered "part of your equipment". Because of this, him raking the bunker is the same as you raking the bunker.

My dad is a rules official, and his best friend has been doing it for a long time. My dad's friend said that the rule was just recently added, but word is that the rule will be either altered or gotten rid of in two years when rules are up for alteration again.

[redi630]

It seems as though that just be standing in the bunker, he would be testing the conditions of the hazard. This still does not make sense to me.