Etiquette for Reporting Competitor's Wrong Score?

[reidsou]

A player in my group yesterday turned in a one stroke lower score on a hole than he got. Competition is closed. He won his flight by one stroke. I did not notice the wrong score until late last night. Attempted to contact him this morning, but hasn't responded. Rule 20.2 says he is supposed to be disqualified.

I was hoping he would report himself. If this doesn't happen, as his marker, do I have a responsibility to report this to the committee? If so, what is the most polite sensitive way to do it? 

I was his marker in the sense that he kept the scores for everyone and I signed the single scorecard at the end without carefully checking all 72 holes of scores for 4 players. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by reidsou
Corrected 22.2 to 20.2. added a paragraph about how I was the "marker"

[iacas]

If you were his marker why did you put that score down to begin with?

3 minutes ago, reidsou said:

Rule 22.2

Huh?

22.2 is "Either Partner May Act for Side"

[reidsou]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

If you were his marker why did you put that score down to begin with?

Huh?

22.2 is "Either Partner May Act for Side"

Thanks! I edited the post to hopefully make it more clear. And corrected the rule number. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by reidsou
Corrected misprint

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, reidsou said:

I was his marker in the sense that he kept the scores for everyone and I signed the single scorecard at the end without carefully checking all 72 holes of scores for 4 players. 

This wasn't a very serious competition if one guy was keeping the score for everyone… including himself.

[reidsou]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

If you were his marker why did you put that score down to begin with?

Huh?

22.2 is "Either Partner May Act for Side"

See my response above. I clearly have some responsibility for this occuring, as I should have checked the scores other than my own. Maybe I should also be disqualified? 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, reidsou said:

See my response above. I clearly have some responsibility for this occuring, as I should have checked the scores other than my own. Maybe I should also be disqualified? 

Maybe play in a real competition next time? 🙂

[reidsou]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Maybe play in a real competition next time? 🙂

Or know the rules about scorekeeping!

The flight winners won $50.  There were 80 players. 

Not sure of your whole point though - it was not "real competition" so I should let it go? 

 

[reidsou]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

This wasn't a very serious competition if one guy was keeping the score for everyone… including himself.

In my club all competitions are run with Golf Genius app. Frequently, each foursome receives a single scorecard for 4 players. That means whoever keeps score for the foursome is also keeping their own score. As you point out, that makes these competitions "not serious".

However, I think that the club intends them to be serious. And for the rules of golf to apply.  

[Club Rat]

10 hours ago, reidsou said:

In my club all competitions are run with Golf Genius app

I believe the USGA now recognizes Electronic/Mobile Scoring as a manner to record scores.
And with being a Club Level Event, The person who used Golf Genius to record scores, should have had all players attest their scores before submitting the scores.

Also typically, a player in the foursome should also record scores to check for accuracy with each other.
In the past years before Mobile scoring became available, every player was issued a printed scorecard.
The on the first tee, players would exchange scorecards and keep the score of the player in the group and record their own scores also. Then after the round, the scores would be reviewed and attested by signing the cards.

When a player signs the card it becomes "Official"
Then if it is discovered that a wrong score was entered (Lower Only) the player is disqualified.

If the player entered a wrong score which was higher, then that players total stands and will not be corrected.

In any form of play at any level of competition, players should always check their scores before submitting.
In our weekend games, I have found many players are seldom checking their scores, but usually only ask
their total to post the scores.

It's also a good practice to show every players scores on a big screen TV at events.
Live Leaderboards at all events are becoming popular.

Proper Etiquette would be to simply speak to the player first and then inforn the committee if the player does not report the error.

I believe if the error is discovered a day later, then there is no recourse and the scores stand.

11 hours ago, reidsou said:

I did not notice the wrong score until late last night. Attempted to contact him this morning,

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Club Rat
Spell check

[reidsou]

27 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

I believe if the error is discovered a day later, then there is no recourse and the scores stand.

Thanks for the detailed reply. 

See rule 20.2e: "player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if he or she: Returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken..." 

[Club Rat]

1 hour ago, reidsou said:

See rule 20.2e: "player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if he or she: Returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken..." 

I'm not sure, the 20.2e Interpetations refers to "Inelgible Player"?
I'm not seeing your request to Disqualify a player after the completion of play after the event has ended.
(The following day or thereafter)?

Where are you reading - "Returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken..."?

@DaveP043 Need your help here please.
 

Quote

20.2e/1 – Player Found to Be Ineligible During Competition or After Result of Match or Competition Is Final
There is no time limit on correcting the results of a competition when a player who has competed in the competition is found to be ineligible.

For example, if it is discovered that a player has played in a competition with a maximum age and the player was over that age, or a player has played in a competition restricted to amateur golfers when the player was not an amateur, the player was ineligible.

In these circumstances, the player is treated as if he or she had not entered the competition, as opposed to being disqualified from the competition, and the scores or the results are amended accordingly.

 

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

Where are you reading - "Returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken..."?

@DaveP043 Need your help here please.

This is in Rule 20.2e(2).  The interpretation you looked at has to do with a player who is ineligible to be in the event.  The basic Rule talks about a stroke play event in which the player returns a "too low" score on any hole for any reason other than the application of a penalty of which the player was unaware at the time he returned his scorecard.

[reidsou]

39 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is in Rule 20.2e(2).  The interpretation you looked at has to do with a player who is ineligible to be in the event.  The basic Rule talks about a stroke play event in which the player returns a "too low" score on any hole for any reason other than the application of a penalty of which the player was unaware at the time he returned his scorecard.

Thanks! 

My question is more about my responsibility to report this now and how best to do it. 

[Club Rat]

25 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The basic Rule talks about a stroke play event in which the player returns a "too low" score on any hole for any reason other than the application of a penalty of which the player was unaware at the time he returned his scorecard.

OK thanks, but I'm not finding if a player can be disqualified "After Completion" as per OP indicates "the following day"
I was under the understanding that when a competition was CLOSED, it's a done deal and he could not indicate
a day or week later, a score was posted which was incorrect?

And then inform a player they are DQ'ed?

[DaveP043]

13 minutes ago, reidsou said:

Thanks! 

My question is more about my responsibility to report this now and how best to do it. 

In my opinion, its your responsibility to report this type of error to the Committee.  I do agree that you should try to contact the "offender" first, and let him correct his own error, but in the long run your responsibility is to the entire field.  

11 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

OK thanks, but I'm not finding if a player can be disqualified "After Completion" as per OP indicates "the following day"
I was under the understanding that when a competition was CLOSED, it's a done deal and he could not indicate
a day or week later, a score was posted which was incorrect?

And then inform a player they are DQ'ed?

I'll quote the relevant portion of the Rule:

Quote

(2) Stroke Play. Normally, a penalty must not be added or corrected after a stroke-play competition has closed, which is:
    When the result becomes final in the way set by the Committee or,

    In stroke-play qualifying followed by match play, when the player has teed off to start his or her first match.

But a player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if he or she:

Returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken for any reason other than failing to include one or more penalty strokes that, before the competition closed, the player did not know about (see Rule 3.3b(3)),

and three more unrelated issues

Normally, the scores stand when the competition is closed, this is one of the exceptions to that general principle.  You might also want to look at Section 7D in Committee Procedures, but that refers back to 20.2e.  In a club tournament, any shop credit awarded to the "offender" should be cancelled, and payouts to other players should be adjusted accordingly.

[reidsou]

7 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

OK thanks, but I'm not finding if a player can be disqualified "After Completion" as per OP indicates "the following day"
I was under the understanding that when a competition was CLOSED, it's a done deal and he could not indicate
a day or week later, a score was posted which was incorrect?

And then inform a player they are DQ'ed?

Yes. 

Please read the Full version of the rules, rule 20.2e(2) - Stroke play. (Maybe you're reading the Player's edition?) 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

In a club tournament, any shop credit awarded to the "offender" should be cancelled, and payouts to other players should be adjusted accordingly.

I'd wager that doesn't happen, and the guy isn't DQed. The "committee" let him keep his own score.

@Club Rat, c'mon man. Everyone appreciates that you're trying to help, but you're not even reading the proper rules here.

---

@reidsou, this isn't really a rules question, because the language and the Rules aren't unclear:

Quote

But a player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if he or she:

By what you've written it wasn't a penalty stroke or two, it was that he wrote down a 4 instead of a 5 while he was keeping his own card.

If I were you, I'd chalk it up as a learning experience. You screwed up, the club screwed up, the guy screwed up. There's likely more to be lost in going forward with it than in bringing it up.

And I'm almost as "rules are rules"* as they'll come.

* Which is not to say all rules are good. Just that they should be applied in almost every situation… when playing an actual serious competition where players don't keep their own scorecards. 😛

[DaveP043]

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'd wager that doesn't happen, and the guy isn't DQed. The "committee" let him keep his own score.

I think you're probably right, and perhaps this might cause more hard feelings than @reidsou wants to bring to himself.  This is one of the potential issues when electronic scoring is used improperly, somehow a player is allowed to serve as his own marker, or the player keeping score does not have an individual specifically assigned as his marker.  On the other hand, once the problem is illustrated to the Committee, they may choose to use a different electronic scoring option for future events.  I'm no expert with Golf Genius, but I'm pretty sure the system can be set up to assign a specific marker to each player.