Scoring Player of the Year for a Golf Tour

[Themightyoz]

I run a golf tour for very average golfers, stroke play.  Would love to hear folks opinions about how we should score players for player of the year.

 

We have four flights based on Scheid Handicapping (ie your flight is determined by what you score that day).  I have two player of the year races,  One net one gross.  Based on how people play on any given day they might be in Flight 1 one week and then Flight 2 the next if they play bad or vice versa.

Points are cumulative over 4 events. 

 

Option 1

The way I see it there are two ways to do this.  One that recognizes a win is 100 and then 80,60,40,20,10 (everybody gets 10) regardless of number of players in your flight 

Ex FLight 1 has 2 players Winner 100, 2nd 80

Flight 2 has 4: Winner 100, 2nd 80, 3rd 60. 4th 40

Flight 3 has 15 Winner 100 2nd 80, 3rd 60 etc then 10 

 

Pros: Simple to understand and implememnt

Rewards winners regardless of number participants

Cons
Heavily biases smaller flights in scoring which could result in players from Flight 1 getting 300 points after 3 events leaving folks in flight 3 no chance to catch up

 

OR
Option 2

The winner gets the number of points for the win that relates to the number of players in your flight

Ex: Flight 1 has 3 players so Winner: 60, 2nd 40, 3rd 20

Flight 2 has 4: Winner 80 2nd 60, 3rd 40. 4th 20
Flight 3 10 players: Winner 100, 2nd 80, 3rd 60, 4th 40, 5th 20, 6th to end 10

 Pros: More competitive 

Anybody can win.
 

Harder to cheat the system 

Cons

Complicated 

Winners get annoyed because even though they won their flight they are still behind.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Themightyoz

[Club Rat]

20 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

Option 1

Seems like you have very few players, why not simply have only ONE POY? 
Handicaps equal the field, so have a POY using Net Scores in One Flight!

[Themightyoz]

Interesting idea.  Given the massive spread it would be interesting.  Right now I have 30 players.

[billchao]

4 hours ago, Club Rat said:

Seems like you have very few players, why not simply have only ONE POY? 
Handicaps equal the field, so have a POY using Net Scores in One Flight!

But in theory couldn’t someone end up with lowest net score and never win a single event?

[Themightyoz]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

But in theory couldn’t someone end up with lowest net score and never win a single event?

Could happen I guess, something to simulate.  And wow 11,000 posts well done sir.

[billchao]

19 minutes ago, Themightyoz said:

Could happen I guess, something to simulate.

I just don't think someone who hasn't won a single event should be in consideration for player of the year. 

23 minutes ago, Themightyoz said:

And wow 11,000 posts well done sir.

Thanks.

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, billchao said:

I just don't think someone who hasn't won a single event should be in consideration for player of the year. 

Why? If there are 30 players, and ten events, and he finishes second every week… he's 28-1 every week, or 280-10 over the ten weeks.

That'd be a tough record to beat, unless the guy who beats him wins six events and finishes third in the other four (282-8).

[Club Rat]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

I just don't think someone who hasn't won a single event should be in consideration for player of the year. 

I agree with Erik and "What IF" one player only plays in two events and could possibly be POY?
With the limited number of events, the point structure should be set to keep it a tight race.
Awarding a high number of points to the winner, opens to large of a lead over the rest of the players, IMO.

[StuM]

question: why keep moving people between flights?  Handicap should equalize over time and avoid moving a good player down after a bad round.

Not sure how the math would work for your players but you could award 10 points for net par then increase or decrease that by each stroke over of under net par plus a few points for first 4 places each week.  That way if you shoot well but are not in the top places you still get season points and a future good round with a win can move you up in the standings.  Then highest season points wins for each flight.

you could also divide season long points by events played (set a minimum number of events to qualify) to get an average for a 2nd POY to reward those who did not play every event. 
 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Why? If there are 30 players, and ten events, and he finishes second every week… he's 28-1 every week, or 280-10 over the ten weeks.

That'd be a tough record to beat, unless the guy who beats him wins six events and finishes third in the other four (282-8).

Just doesn't feel right, I guess? I mean I understand your argument, but someone is going to be butthurt that a guy who never won a single event comes out as player of the year.

1 hour ago, Club Rat said:

I agree with Erik and "What IF" one player only plays in two events and could possibly be POY?

Aren't points awarded for simply playing, though? Playing in 10 events is the same as winning one.

[iacas]

Natalie won player of the year one year when she was quite small… mostly because she played more events than some of the better players. She accumulated the most points. Same is true in the FedExCup, etc.

If it matters to someone, they'll play more events.

Same is true of the "Great Lakes Junior Golf Tour" that's around here, US Kids Golf, Tri-State PGA Junior golf, WNY PGA Junior golf, etc.

[Club Rat]

22 hours ago, billchao said:

Aren't points awarded for simply playing, though?

Yes and No. 
Yes if a player plays 10 events pending the point structure, it could equate to the same as winning ONE event.
But would the total be enough point to actually win the series long event? I doubt it would.

Several years ago, I played in both reagula Mens events and Senior Mens events.
I finished 2 in the points in both Men and Senior.
I won 2 events in both Men and Senior, 4 events that year.
I brought home some nice hardware and posted photos on TST.
But I still scratch my head and ask how could a player who was 66 years of age win Two Man in Reg Men and Two Man in Seniors and Stroke Play in A flight in Mens and Match Play in Senior A flight not be considered POY?
My total ponts for all the events was 350 higher than both Mens POY and Senior POY.
Where I probably screwed myself was playing in the Mens Stroke Play and not as the Senior Stroke Play.
I shoot 11 over par for the 2 day total from the Mens Tees and could easily have beaten the Senior Stroke Play winner who shot 17 over from the White Tees. I tried to plee my case that my total points should count towards POY  regardless of if a player is an Mens or Senior. And that POY should be the Player of the Year who has the most total points.
Due to Stroke Play being the same weekend for Regular and Seniors I had only ONE choice.
If it had been on different weekends I would have played in both and had a good chance to win both and could have been POY in both with the clubs set of rules.

Many of the Members agreed with me and perceive me as the unofficial POY 🙂

[Themightyoz]

On 7/15/2022 at 6:47 PM, StuM said:

question: why keep moving people between flights?  Handicap should equalize over time and avoid moving a good player down after a bad round.

Great question.  Because my players don't need an official handicap and I am handicapping them based on how they play that say it moves them around flights for that day.  

On 7/15/2022 at 10:02 AM, Club Rat said:

Seems like you have very few players, why not simply have only ONE POY? 
Handicaps equal the field, so have a POY using Net Scores in One Flight!

Like cumulative net over the course of the year?

[Club Rat]

22 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

Like cumulative net over the course of the year?

Yes that could and should be the best option.
Like I posted previosly, having multiple POY persay flights or Gross and Net fields,
would most likely have the better or lowest Hdcp win Gross POY.
The Net POY would most likely be won by the highest Hdc player.
And to keep players interested and increase particapation, 
avoid using any system of points where a runway winner would happen,
such as large Bonus for winning a single event.

[Themightyoz]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:34 AM, Club Rat said:

Yes that could and should be the best option.
Like I posted previosly, having multiple POY persay flights or Gross and Net fields,
would most likely have the better or lowest Hdcp win Gross POY.
The Net POY would most likely be won by the highest Hdc player.
And to keep players interested and increase particapation, 
avoid using any system of points where a runway winner would happen,
such as large Bonus for winning a single event.

You have me thinking now. that a cumulative gross/net would be sufficient and also very easy and clear.  My only complication I am seeing is if we have 8 events which we plan on having next year is how do we account for one perosn playing 8 events and another playing all 8 events.  I mean I suppose we could do handicap +10 strokes 

 

Thoughts and thanks. 

On 7/15/2022 at 6:47 PM, StuM said:

question: why keep moving people between flights?  Handicap should equalize over time and avoid moving a good player down after a bad round.

Not sure how the math would work for your players but you could award 10 points for net par then increase or decrease that by each stroke over of under net par plus a few points for first 4 places each week.  That way if you shoot well but are not in the top places you still get season points and a future good round with a win can move you up in the standings.  Then highest season points wins for each flight.

you could also divide season long points by events played (set a minimum number of events to qualify) to get an average for a 2nd POY to reward those who did not play every event. 
 

Can you give me a numbers example of what this would look like, especially that second part    

[Club Rat]

37 minutes ago, Themightyoz said:

how do we account for one perosn playing 8 events and another playing all 8 events.

Not sure if you have a typo in your post, I read this as both players playing 8 events.
IF you referencing having some players play all 8 events and some playing less,
then you could set guidelines for the players to be elgible for POY.

In fairness to the field, you could set a limit of rounds to be elgible.
Granted, not all players will make all events.
Would you consider, setting a minimun limit to 5 events and use the best scores of the 5?
It does give a possible advantage to players who play all 8 events, their total would be the best of the 5,
while players who only plays 5 would not benefit from having higher scores dropped from his total.

I'm only suggesting 5 rounds as an example, you could set your own number.
Having a limit would keep players interested and give them an oportunity to better their overall total.
While players who only have the minimun would need to play at their best.
After all, POY should be the best of the events. 

[Themightyoz]

Thanks really like that idea!  Well done thinking that out /

[StuM]

4 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

Can you give me a numbers example of what this would look like, especially that second part

18 hole example.

golfer A has 10 HCP and shots 83 Gross. 
83-10 = 73 net

par 72 - 73 net = -1 “adjustment”

Points = 15 -1= 14

Golfer B has 12 HCP and shoots 83 Gross.

83 -12 = 71 net

par 72 - 71 net = +1 “adjustment”

points = 15 + 1 = 16

the idea is to reward those golfing better than their handicap and penalize for really bad rounds. Over several rounds a golfer will likely have some positive and done negative adjustments.  The player sigh most points after several rounds would be a more consistent and improving golfer.

also, this discourages sandbagging since a bad round can really hurt your points.