Net Golf Tour: Help Me Solve My Problem

[Themightyoz]

The Problem 

 

If you could create the truly equitable net golf tour with 8 events what would it look like?  Flights or no flights?  Official HCP only or tracking HCPs based on tournament rounds played (best 1 for for 3 rounds, 2 for 5, etc).  What would player of the year look like?  How would you give out prizes?

 

My solution

 

Scores are net stroke play.

HCPs are either official HCP's if the person has one OR tournament HCP;s based on rounds played

HCPs are controlled by the Knuth tournament scoring system for event to event

Top  5 net scores win $100, $80, $40, $20, $10 prizes

Player of the year I'm at a loss here because if I have 40 players should it be worth more and if so how much more.  Must play 5/8 events to qualify

 

Extra Prizes

Longest Drive Men $10
Longest Drive women $10
Closest to the Pin x2 $10
Low Gross $10
After you award (Last place) gets to tee it forward in next tournament

 

 

The Context

 

Everybody can Play, Everybody can Win 

 

That is the goal I want to get to and the way I ran it last year just didn't fit the bill.  
 

I ran golf tournaments (forethefunofgolf.com) last year with gross and net prizes across four flights but it just didn't feel right.  My first two flights (0-9 and 10-18 barely had any players some winning prizes by default, 36+ had 60-80% of the field so I am going back to the drawing board).  Tried to use the Schied handicapping system but the flaw was if a usually good player played bad  Schied hcp was inflated .  So that is also an issue.  

 

To give some context I've attached two sets of scores from  our events.

 

I really want a net tour because I want ALL  golfers to be on a level playing field and I mean ALL.  Even with a 50 hcp you should be able to play and you should be able to win.  Golf is a game against oneself and doing better than you are supposed to.  

 

Here are some of the issues I have with the other AM tours out there

 

If the highest flight is too low for example (Golf AM tour 21+/US AM Tour 20+/Am Players tour 18.75+) then regular golfers (those who score 100+) often are out before they even start

If there are no flights and those with low hcps are penalized so they get up to an arbitrary starting point it still has the same problem because its gross without flights (Mediocre Golf who penalizes anything below an 18 hcp.  Even with an 11 shot penalty my 7 hcp golfer can still break 85 for example)

The best example is the World Am but I don't have the critical mass nor resources to give prizes for flights that tight.

Team Play is an option too but people are not organized for that I find and its a lot of work (City Tour)

Net stableford requires quite a bit of calculation

 

My solution above is the best I have come up with and would love to hear your thoughts.  If we find the right model I hope we can grow this across North America.  

Event 1.pdf Event 3 (3).pdf

[dennyjones]

Paging @Club Rat, you have any ideas? 

[bkuehn1952]

Use official handicaps. Make everyone who plays sign up for a handicap. Using handicaps based on tournament play is better but it takes a long time for a player to have a reasonable number of scores. Yes, the new handicap system starts at three scores but I think the resulting number has low credibility. Also, it takes a bit of work to calculate the “C” handicap.

If you have 40 players, make two flights. Make the split wherever it needs to be to get equal flights.  If there is a large spread in the high and low index in each flight, consider using a percentage of the handicap (90% is recommended).

Your Club Champion should be the player with the lowest gross average over the season with a minimum number of events required (5?). You can also award “Net Player of the Year” to the member who wins the most gift certificates.

[Themightyoz]

@bkuehn1952Thanks for that response.  What is the value in 90% handicap.  I understand how it would lower the HCP of the best players, but wouldn't it harm the high handicappers?

 

Thanks.  

 

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, Themightyoz said:

@bkuehn1952Thanks for that response.  What is the value in 90% handicap.  I understand how it would lower the HCP of the best players, but wouldn't it harm the high handicappers?

The USGA will suggest certain handicap reductions, in large part because higher handicappers have an easier time shooting -6 or something (net) than a low handicapper.

While any one low handicapper has a slight edge in beating any one high handicapper, 100 low handicappers will generally win less than 50% of the events if there are also 100 high handicappers. Especially at 100% handicaps.

[Themightyoz]

Just now, iacas said:

The USGA will suggest certain handicap reductions, in large part because higher handicappers have an easier time shooting -6 or something (net) than a low handicapper.

Ah right I gotcha.  

 

 

[bkuehn1952]

I would also suggest everyone play with their full or reduced (90%) handicap within each flight. Many clubs play “scratch” within each flight, which I do not like. If a flight is set at 10-15 Handicap, the player with a “10” is going to have a significant advantage over the player with a “15” when they play even/scratch within their flight. Give each player their handicap to make it fair.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by bkuehn1952

[Themightyoz]

2 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I would also suggest everyone play with their full or reduced (90%) handicap within each flight. Many clubs play “scratch” within each flight, which I do not like. If a flight is set at 10-15 Handicap, the player with a “10” is going to have a significant advantage over the player with a “15” when they play even/scratch within their flight. Give each player their handicap to make it fair.

 

That issue with scratch is exactly my issue as well. The 90% thing makes sense to me now that I think about it.  I'll have to chew on that a bit more might need to do top3 in each flight then that could work.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Themightyoz

[bkuehn1952]

I am basing my comments on how our senior club operates. We have 200 members with indexes running from 0.0 to 36.0. We flight our net tournaments into 4 flights of about 25 players each. Every player receives their full playing handicap so if the 4th flight has players with indexes ranging from 18.0 to 36.0, the "36" does not have to play even with the "18".

We have found that the people placing in the top 5 of each flight changes from tournament to tournament. If a member is "too successful", we have a system that adjusts a player's playing handicap downward.

Best of luck in putting together your 2023 schedule!

 

[Themightyoz]

On 11/30/2022 at 7:48 AM, bkuehn1952 said:

I am basing my comments on how our senior club operates. We have 200 members with indexes running from 0.0 to 36.0. We flight our net tournaments into 4 flights of about 25 players each. Every player receives their full playing handicap so if the 4th flight has players with indexes ranging from 18.0 to 36.0, the "36" does not have to play even with the "18".

We have found that the people placing in the top 5 of each flight changes from tournament to tournament. If a member is "too successful", we have a system that adjusts a player's playing handicap downward.

Best of luck in putting together your 2023 schedule!

 

What is your system?  Thanks for the insights.

 

[Denny Bang Bang]

@Themightyoz I run a friendly competitive net league myself, so I like your post and all the discussion.

We play once a month, there are 20 players that participate overall, but typically about 12 per event.  All events are net based off official GHIN, and the indexes range from about 5-28.  Last year the events consisted of Stroke play, Skins, Chicago, Stableford, 2 person best ball.  Everyone puts $20 into the pot and pot pays out top 3.  There is a optional gross birdie pot as well, which pays out based on number of gross birdies.  I also gave points to the top 3 each event, and the player with the most points at the end of the year won the cup (which was an engraved stainless steel beer stein).  We don’t flight because there aren’t enough people.  I probably would have flights if we had 20+ players every event.

For 2023, I’m adding a little more.  There will be 7 events total, two of them majors.  First major the week after the Masters, and one the last event of the year.  Buy in will be double for those events.  I’m also revising the event points to sort of mirror the FedEx Cup points.  E.g. 1st 50 pts, 2nd 30 pts, 3rd 19 pts 4th 14 pts, etc.  I’m still thinking about how I might tweak the event points a little, I want more people to be in the running come the final event.  I like the idea of 90% index mentioned above, I’ll have to think more about that.

The formal mens league I play in is over 200 members.  That league has 4 (sometimes 5, depending on participation) flights, based on index.  Typical game formats, season point system, weekly side games (deuces, birdies, skins), some team events, a two day club championship at the end of the season.

[bkuehn1952]

On 12/3/2022 at 7:32 PM, Themightyoz said:

What is your system?  Thanks for the insights.

 

It is a variation on the TPS or Tournament Points System developed by Dean Knuth. If you search “Pope of Slope” you might find the system described. We use 1 year rather than 2 years and everyone starts the year at 0 points. If someone finishes 1st, 2nd or 3rd in their flight (including ties), they get point: 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd … After someone accumulates enough points in X number of tournaments, their tournament handicap is reduced.  Out of 200 participants, we have 4-5 members with reduced tournament handicaps each year.  It seems to be different people each year, which is good.

[Themightyoz]

On 11/28/2022 at 10:04 PM, iacas said:

The USGA will suggest certain handicap reductions, in large part because higher handicappers have an easier time shooting -6 or something (net) than a low handicapper.

While any one low handicapper has a slight edge in beating any one high handicapper, 100 low handicappers will generally win less than 50% of the events if there are also 100 high handicappers. Especially at 100% handicaps.

If I were to do this do I round up/down depending on the decimal

[Themightyoz]

Never mind the above I found the answer to round up.  

Wanted to share the finished product.

Flights will be based off your playing handicap which is 95% of your course handicap.

All scores will be net based off official 95% of course Handicap either through Golf Canada or The Grint.

 

Flight A 0-27

1st $40

2nd $20

3rd $10

 

Flight B 28+

(Based on differentials of scoring 100 at the 8 courses we might play)

1st $40

2nd $20

3rd $10

 

Closest to the Pin x4 $10

Low Gross $10

After you award (Last place) gets to tee it forward in next tournament

 

Player of the year:

Gross & Net

Must play 5 events to qualify. Player of the year will be based off your 5 lowest scores. (If you play 8 events, the 3 highest don't count)