Anything Wrong Here? Finau's and Morikawa's Balls in Bunker

[Rulesman]

 

[sjduffers]

Finau's caddy cleaned Tony's ball after he marked it (a club length away), starting around 2:30 in the video. You can't clean a ball when marking it unless on the green. Correct?  The rest of the procedure looks ok to me.

Edited January 6, 2023 by sjduffers

[Rulesman]

49 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Finau's caddy cleaned Tony's ball after he marked it (a club length away), starting around 2:30 in the video. You can't clean a ball when marking it unless on the green. Correct?  The rest of the procedure looks ok to me.

Anything else?

[DaveP043]

If Morikawa's ball (at rest) was moved by Finau's, he was required to replace it on its original spot.  I'm not sure anyone could say for sure if it was moved.  I've heard that Finau's caddie was told by the Referee that he could clean it, so he's in the clear, even if he shouldn't have been allowed to clean it.  Finau was required to "recreate" his original lie when he replaced his ball, and its possible that the ball was sitting down a little more in the "track" originally, he replaced it on top of the raked sand.  Again, it was done with the Referee there, so there's no blow-back on Finau.

[iacas]

The original ball was the straight one… and the second ball was the other one that "got in the groove" and rolled out until it just barely touched the original ball."

From the picture I saw the other day, I thought one ball had deflected the other. I didn't think it had just gotten into the rut and rolled.

32 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've heard that Finau's caddie was told by the Referee that he could clean it, so he's in the clear, even if he shouldn't have been allowed to clean it.

Where did you hear that? Because I looked for that in the video and didn't see it at all. The RO isn't near the caddie when he first takes the towel to it.

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Where did you hear that? Because I looked for that in the video and didn't see it at all. The RO isn't near the caddie when he first takes the towel to it.

I see the caddie holding it in two fingers near the towel initially.  He's backing up, and as the camera changes at about 2:40 he's holding it out towards the official, who is standing next to the other caddie.  I hear the word "clean", the caddie nods, and only then wraps it in the towel.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I see the caddie holding it in two fingers near the towel initially.  He's backing up, and as the camera changes at about 2:40 he's holding it out towards the official, who is standing next to the other caddie.  I hear the word "clean", the caddie nods, and only then wraps it in the towel.

Oh, okay. I see what you mean now. Maybe.

That's pretty bad then if so.

[Rulesman]

32 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

If Morikawa's ball (at rest) was moved by Finau's, he was required to replace it on its original spot.  I'm not sure anyone could say for sure if it was moved.  I've heard that Finau's caddie was told by the Referee that he could clean it, so he's in the clear, even if he shouldn't have been allowed to clean it.  Finau was required to "recreate" his original lie when he replaced his ball, and its possible that the ball was sitting down a little more in the "track" originally, he replaced it on top of the raked sand.  Again, it was done with the Referee there, so there's no blow-back on Finau.

The referee seemed to nod to the caddie

[DaveP043]

It makes me wonder if the Referee knew which ball was the first to be played off the tee.  If he thought that Finau's ball had been at rest and was moved by Morikawa's, his decisions make more sense to me.  Morikawa played as it lies, Finau allowed to clean and recreate the original lie.  Maybe?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

It makes me wonder if the Referee knew which ball was the first to be played off the tee.  If he thought that Finau's ball had been at rest and was moved by Morikawa's, his decisions make more sense to me.  Morikawa played as it lies, Finau allowed to clean and recreate the original lie.  Maybe?

The referee, IMO, didn't ask enough questions to have a complete understanding of the situation.

[Rulesman]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

The original ball was the straight one… and the second ball was the other one that "got in the groove" and rolled out until it just barely touched the original ball."

From the picture I saw the other day, I thought one ball had deflected the other. I didn't think it had just gotten into the rut and rolled.

That's the way I read the conversation early in the video.

I also heard 'got in the trough' from a spectator(?) a few seconds earlier

Edited January 6, 2023 by Rulesman