Wright Balance Fitting

[Clemsonfan]

After some poor scoring and having my handicap increase to 8.3 due primarily to poor approach shots I contacted David Wright of Wright Balance fitting seeking a nearby fitter. Gig Hilton from Sapona Golf Club in Lexington, NC, called and we scheduled a lesson for 5/4, and discussed golf for about 30 minutes. I had thought about Wright Balance when I started Stack training and noticed almost immediately that my speed increased when I used more launch instead of rotation, which my swing heavily favored.

Our fitting/lesson began at 9:00 after a 2 hour drive for me. Gig measured my height, several chest measurements, foot size, finger and hand length and entered into a database that provided a stance width as a starting point to determine if I am Upper, Mid or Lower Core. I had been making lower core swings with huge rotation that made me a pretty accurate driver at 65%, but my GIR were well below recent history. Some of this is attributable to playing a much course the past 16 months with a 155 Slope.
 

Gig placed me in a harness, that I was able to take with me, that had a rod that set at belt height. Gig laid a band with 9 numbers on it on the floor and had me place my left foot at my starting measurement and my right at different numbers marked 1-9. I tended to be open with each number marked 1-6 (lower to mid core), and squared up the best at 8. 7-9 stance widths ties to an upper core swing which has the largest hip rotation backwards, favors the left leg as your post and encourages speed as your hands release fully just past the ball.

Next, Gig ran me through multiple breathing exercises designed to reduce variability from square at each of the stance widths. Then he tested my strength at a several stance widths. At the location marked 1, he grabbed the club and easily shoved me back a few feet. We repeated the same test at 5 and I almost fell down- and I am a pretty stout man with good length strength. At stance #8 he pushed me and I didn’t budge. Gig tried to push with much greater effort, and I still didn’t move. This number tied to an Upper Core swing.

Next, we looked at grip size. As a former tennis player, I like to think of my swing as a forehand grip and used JumboMax Ultralight Smalls for the past two years - and those are 1/4” over standard. Moving to these grips immediately eliminated my worst miss - the dreaded hook. My hands aren’t large, but I can palm a basketball.

Immediately after going through the grip sizing Gig told me I needed to use a standard grip with 1 layer of tape. If I liked less taper, building up the right hand would be fine. Anticipating that he would tell me this, I put Tour Velvet Midsize plus 4s on 3 clubs prior to the fitting. Gig told me those would probably be too big, but to try the recommended size on 1 club and see if I liked it before removing those grips. I chose the driver, my favorite club, as the test club after the lesson. After my fitting, he gave me some general swing instruction and we hit the range to test the recommended stance widths. With the smaller grips I hit them great -long, high and generally straight. With my old JumboMax grips, I was fading much more than I normally do. Gig gave me some drills to do and left me to my own devices. I ended the fitting by ripping several drivers to the back of the range- despite the large grip.

I played today, and and had different grips on multiple clubs, which I don’t like, so I didn’t have high hopes for my score. With my driver my playing partner told me I must have gained 20 yards! Not sure if that was true but I hit several drivers through the fairway where that gap had never happened in the past. I hit one bad driver today on 9 when my old swing returned and I hit a left to left shot into the lake! 
 

All in all, I am looking forward to future work with the Upper Core swing and lessons with Gig.

[Golfer20]

I'm glad you were able to see some improvement by seeing Gig.  I live about an hour from Lexington, and I have never heard of Sapona Golf Club.  I'll have to drive up there and play it soon.   

[iacas]

My nature is to pick at the little things and ignore the things I agree with or don't have a problem with. It's always been that way, and even when I agree or like something moreso, I'll still pick at things. Honestly, I think it helps me be a good instructor, too: someone who can shoot 75 does a lot of things well, but I'll go to the few things I don't absolutely love in order to help them.

Anyway, if there are good answers to the questions, if the objections or whatever can be overcome… great.

I'll do that below, but it's not necessarily to disagree overall, as I can't because I know so little about this right now. I bumped on a few things…

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

…noticed almost immediately that my speed increased when I used more launch instead of rotation, which my swing heavily favored.

What's "launch" here? Vertical jumping?

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

Gig measured my height, several chest measurements, foot size, finger and hand length and entered into a database that provided a stance width as a starting point to determine if I am Upper, Mid or Lower Core.

I'm not sure I understand how static measurements of your body determine your type of golf swing. I never have, and I don't know that I love the Mike Adams stuff for this same reason. Especially for a golfer who has established a pattern of movement over 10, 20, 30 years.

Also, 155 slope?!?! Are you playing the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island from the Championship tees on the regular?

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

Gig placed me in a harness, that I was able to take with me, that had a rod that set at belt height.

Got a picture?

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

Gig laid a band with 9 numbers on it on the floor and had me place my left foot at my starting measurement and my right at different numbers marked 1-9. I tended to be open with each number marked 1-6 (lower to mid core), and squared up the best at 8. 7-9 stance widths ties to an upper core swing which has the largest hip rotation backwards, favors the left leg as your post and encourages speed as your hands release fully just past the ball.

So they say that a wider stance allows for more rotation?

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

Then he tested my strength at a several stance widths. At the location marked 1, he grabbed the club and easily shoved me back a few feet. We repeated the same test at 5 and I almost fell down- and I am a pretty stout man with good length strength. At stance #8 he pushed me and I didn’t budge. Gig tried to push with much greater effort, and I still didn’t move. This number tied to an Upper Core swing.

 

So you almost fell over with a wider stance than a narrower one? Why aren't the numbers sequential? Or evenly spaced? Why are 8 and 4 so close, while 7 is so far from 5 despite being half the distance on a number line as 8 and 4? 😄

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

Next, we looked at grip size. As a former tennis player, I like to think of my swing as a forehand grip and used JumboMax Ultralight Smalls for the past two years - and those are 1/4” over standard. Moving to these grips immediately eliminated my worst miss - the dreaded hook. My hands aren’t large, but I can palm a basketball.

I don't know your last sentence for sure… and I don't think that grip size has nearly as much effect as people think. I think it's almost entirely about comfort, not functionality. I say almost, because most people will go from standard to midsize… and I think it takes a big change to change the functionality.

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From what I've read elsewhere, the vast majority of people seem to test out as "upper core" players. It makes me wonder about the entire testing process, too, especially how static it felt.

That just seems… odd to me. If I hold a spatula, and then a fork… I don't think that's "going to my core." I also don't think that the grip size is going to matter too much to that, particularly in my "core," or affect my "balance."

For example… this feels like hooey:

Particularly the part at about 1:05 or so.

I can rotate fully, standing flat footed, and roll my arms and wrists completely independently.

[SEMI_Duffer]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

I can rotate fully, standing flat footed, and roll my arms and wrists completely independently.

Same here, and I'm seventy-two years old.

[Clemsonfan]

@iacas Per swing dynamics and Scott Lynn, there are three components to the swing - gliding, rotation and launch. Launch would feel like a jump, and I feel like it is pushing off with my left foot. To me, this would be similar to the Chasing Scratch episode with Dr. Greg Rose. That said, I have only had one in-person lesson, and my second will be Friday.

The static measurements were for determining proper stance width for me for all three types of swings. The balance tests identified the core region used.

I play Musgrove Mill in Clinton, SC, since one member of my regular group joined. You might be able to bounce a shot on the green on 1, 8, 10, 13 and 16, but it would be pretty rare. I have only seen someone run a wood onto the green on 16 of those holes listed. I suspect that is why the Slope is 155.

For the last part about that you think is hooey I was inclined to think the same thing. That said, when I stood in the upper core stance width with proper grip, my ability to rotate increased by several inches.

 

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Clemsonfan said:

@iacas Per swing dynamics and Scott Lynn, there are three components to the swing - gliding, rotation and launch. Launch would feel like a jump, and I feel like it is pushing off with my left foot. To me, this would be similar to the Chasing Scratch episode with Dr. Greg Rose.

Without getting too far into it, the Chasing Scratch thing is more about the horizontal, not the vertical. But, anyway, that's what I thought you meant by "launch"; I just wanted to make sure.

3 minutes ago, Clemsonfan said:

The static measurements were for determining proper stance width for me for all three types of swings. The balance tests identified the core region used.

That doesn't really answer my questions, though.

Like I said, I have a hard time understanding how you were so unstable you almost fell over, and then by changing your stance width a little, you were rock solid. Or why the numbers are so out of order. Or how it might adjust based on your height (a child wouldn't have the same stance width as they would when they're older/larger).

3 minutes ago, Clemsonfan said:

I suspect that is why the Slope is 155.

The slope is just another way of expressing the bogey course rating. The back tees do play to 155, which is fairly surprising. Not many 155s out there given that's the maximum.

3 minutes ago, Clemsonfan said:

For the last part about that you think is hooey I was inclined to think the same thing. That said, when I stood in the upper core stance width with proper grip, my ability to rotate increased by several inches.

I checked with a few others today with the grip thing above… and it didn't seem to affect how much anyone could turn.

I'm still quite skeptical. This stuff doesn't seem to make any sense to me, and like I said before… almost everyone seems to grade out as "upper core," which feels like a flag to me, particularly given that you're apparently supposed to use a pretty weak grip with an "upper core" player.

I'm not saying you should know all of the answers here… you're just trying it out. You're not certified in this. I'm just sharing my thoughts, the things on which I bump… etc.

[saevel25]

I agree with @iacas on the grip stuff. I think it is more personal preference. I prefer a smaller grip because it lets me really get a good grip in my left hand. It lets me feel like I can grip firmer and keep the grip in the fingers. Wider grips tend to slide into the palm of my left hand. The difference in diameter is not too crazy between something like a standard versus mid-sized. 

Play around with golf width stances. It varies pending the club you hit. Driver will be definitely wider than a pitch shot. 

Hey, if it works out, results matter more in golf 😉

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by saevel25

[phillyk]

Generally I put people in a stance width just outside their hip line, except wedges which gets skinnier and driver which is slightly wider.

Let’s just assume there is some sort of hand balance. What is the range of data and standard deviation? In other words, how much off “normal” does what? And does that actually happen for a majority of players? I can’t imagine it changes something significantly enough. But I have no idea. Certainly I put people in thicker grips for arthritis and big hands or fingers. But I also think it’s more for comfort than mechanical. My mobility around the wrist is not affected by what my hands hold. Certainly if I grip too firmly, that freezes the wrist joint, but that goes back to comfort.

Core rotation range is based on the hip’s ability to rotate and chest ability to rotate. The hand’s don’t effect range of core motion. There are things to help increase range on one side or another, like flaring the feet out. But, my core rotation and hand mobility are mostly independent. Even if there was an effect, it would be minimal and negligible, imo. 

If it works, though, it works. Glad you are playing better and having fun. I like to pick at things too, to keep learning.

[Clemsonfan]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

The slope is just another way of expressing the bogey course rating. The back tees do play to 155, which is fairly surprising. Not many 155s out there given that's the maximum.

I checked with a few others today with the grip thing above… and it didn't seem to affect how much anyone could turn.

I'm still quite skeptical. This stuff doesn't seem to make any sense to me, and like I said before… almost everyone seems to grade out as "upper core," which feels like a flag to me, particularly given that you're apparently supposed to use a pretty weak grip with an "upper core".

Both the Walnut and the Oak tees play to 155, at least that is what they say on the scorecards I have used the last 18 months.

As far as checking with others, without placing them in the correct stance widths, how would you know? I am saying that with kindness, and no derogatory intention. The same thing with the balance.

I have some skepticism, as well, but have always believed that different body types should not swing in the same fashion. I think there is plenty of merit in Mike Adams’ instruction. I tend to be skeptical of averages and instruction that focuses on the middle ground.

My instructor told me that more than 50% of his students are Upper Core, primarily because he teaches older men. He said students tend to move up their core regions as they age. That makes sense to me that people lose their core strength over time.

We will see how this goes. My handicap was scratch in the ‘80s with only one lesson. In 2014, I went the Plane Truth route and the instructor told me I was one plane, which I struggled to believe. I was right and over the next few years I developed golfer’s elbow, arm, hand and back pain until I finally stopped seeing him. Over the last few years, as my putting declined, I felt I had to hit better approaches. As that part of the game declined, my handicap has risen to 8.3 which is about the highest it’s ever been for more than a few months when I was playing regularly. 

[iacas]

Just now, Clemsonfan said:

As far as checking with others, without placing them in the correct stance widths, how would you know? I am saying that with kindness, and no derogatory intention. The same thing with the balance.

Because it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how standing with one foot in a spot that's a few inches different is going to have you go from "falling over" to "rock solid" (paraphrased, both).

Which direction did he push you? What direction is "back"? And were you more stable for the last one because you knew what was coming?

Just now, Clemsonfan said:

I have some skepticism, as well, but have always believed that different body types should not swing in the same fashion. I think there is plenty of merit in Mike Adams’ instruction. I tend to be skeptical of averages and instruction that focuses on the middle ground.

Who does that?

And my point was… I could find two people with similar forearm length measurements… who have completely different ranges of flexibility and motion of the various forearm/wrist joints, as well as 20 years of habits that encourage them to do one thing or another.

I've never said I teach an "average" or that I don't adjust for different body types.

And like I said… I'm skeptical until I'm shown that my skepticism is misplaced. But if I can dismiss something (with reason, I mean) by picking at something early, rather than accepting it and rolling with it… it saves me a lot of time in the end.

I almost always take the devil's advocate/con/"find the holes" approach to things.

[Clemsonfan]

Which direction did he push you? What direction is "back"? And were you more stable for the last one because you knew what was coming?
 

He was pushing me backwards, and he asked me to resist each time. I  was able to do so when I was in the stance width he showed me. The difference was dramatic.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And my point was… I could find two people with similar forearm length measurements… who have completely different ranges of flexibility and motion of the various forearm/wrist joints, as well as 20 years of h

Thanks for the explanation. My understanding of Mike Adams’ teaching is he says the same thing. If the forearm is longer than your upper arm you need to swing a little above the shoulder line; shorter would be a little below. Your grip, post and plane would all depend upon the things you mention. 

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I've never said I teach an "average" or that I don't adjust for different.      
 

I never said you did, either. I don’t like instructors who do.

[iacas]

16 hours ago, Clemsonfan said:

He was pushing me backwards, and he asked me to resist each time. I  was able to do so when I was in the stance width he showed me. The difference was dramatic.

Yeah… see, that there doesn't make any sense to me. I'd love to have seen video of that, as I imagine you were doing something else differently. I can resist that kind of thing in all sorts of different stance widths, certainly more closely than "rock solid" and "almost fell over" (paraphrased, again).

On 5/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Clemsonfan said:

At the location marked 1, he grabbed the club and easily shoved me back a few feet. We repeated the same test at 5 and I almost fell down- and I am a pretty stout man with good length strength. At stance #8 he pushed me and I didn’t budge.

For reference…

On 6/11/2023 at 7:53 AM, iacas said:

16 hours ago, Clemsonfan said:

Thanks for the explanation. My understanding of Mike Adams’ teaching is he says the same thing. If the forearm is longer than your upper arm you need to swing a little above the shoulder line; shorter would be a little below. Your grip, post and plane would all depend upon the things you mention. 

I was making that up. The point I was trying to make is that systems which constrain you are, IMO, just that: constraining.

I don't think a forearm measurement, or the way you "naturally" grip the club (side-on, side-cover, cover, whatever…) might be more a product of how you've learned to grip the club than anything else, and may or may not be a determinant of what you should do or how you should swing. I imagine I could find golfers whose forearms say they should swing "a little below" who are best served to swing "a little above" for a whole bunch of reasons.

I'm generally wary of "systems" like this that seek to say "these measurements put you in this box." The Wright Balance stuff feels like that, to me, with enough stuff that just makes no sense at all to me (the grip stuff affecting your rotation?) that… I just don't get it. I don't buy in.

[Clemsonfan]

I’m wary of systems, too. That is why I thought Stack and Tilt only worked for people whose body type fit their swing. I knew mine didn’t.

I am eager to go to my 2nd lesson this Friday and see how things develop.

[Clemsonfan]

Follow up to my Wright Balance lesson from a couple of weeks ago.

My instructor, Gig Hilton, reviewed several iron swings I provided from a practice session. My takeaway was good but my right arm bends inside of 90* which leads to me hanging back on the backswing. We will address this on the range with a mat that measures weight pressure from side to side and back to front.

We run through the tests again to measure if I am upper, middle or lower core, and perform the breathing exercises that allow you to stand at any width for a few hours. I am upper core. We test the proper grip size with a pool cue. When holding it towards the cue end at my measurement I am the most stable. At the off my backswing when Gig tries to press my arms down holding the cue stick he cannot budge me. When I hold it at the lower core grip size, which is towards the thick end, he can push me around with minimal effort.

Gig had recently attended a Be Better Golf school with Dr. Kwon and gave me a rope to swing. I have watched several of Dr. Kwon’s videos and grasped the swing concepts quickly. 
 

After hitting a few balls with different clubs I am still pretty narrow on my backswing but improving. Old habits are hard to break.

Gig set up the pressure mat and I shift off the ball well and get my weight into my right heel and mid foot but don’t get as much weight back to my left side. He shows me this on a program he has on his iPad. Gig is also videotaping my swing on his phone and we can see the two together. The iPad is good enough for me and he shows me that my backswing weight shift is over by the time my hands get to hip height. I need to shift my pressure to the left at this point and then launch off my left foot at impact. When I do this I have almost all my weight on my left side at impact (90%+) with my 6-iron and I am no longer making divots - just brushing the grass. My ball flight is high and straight and did not move much. I am able to replicate this with other clubs including the driver. Gig provides some drills for me to complete and I have done them daily except for a family trip to Chicago. Gig found a video fromAthletic Motion Golf on the role of the right arm and I try those drills on most days. 
 

I have only been able to play twice since my lesson and both rounds were at the same tough course. I struggled mightily on the front 9 yesterday but came together on the back where I hit all 7 fairways. 5were the longest I have ever hit out there and 2 were close (11 and 15 are not driver holes but I slung a 5-wood around the corner on 15), and I hit 1/2 of the par 3 greens. I shot 40 after two thee-jacks, and bogeying both par 5s. Went for the green in 2 on on 13 and hit to an unplayable lie; hit into a divot on 16 and came up short of the green. Missed my 5’ putt for par. Eager to see how this works. My handicap is up to 8.6, which is not my highest, but this has been the longest it has been above 8.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Clemsonfan said:

I need to shift my pressure to the left at this point and then launch off my left foot at impact.

Suggested reading.

I still don't buy into the grip size affecting the stability of your stance, or other things. But… okay.

[Clemsonfan]

Thanks for the reading suggestion. Will read it after church. 
 

I might not have bought it either until I went through the process.  I am a former weightlifter and suspect I am stronger than most.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Clemsonfan said:

I might not have bought it either until I went through the process.  I am a former weightlifter and suspect I am stronger than most.

I don't buy it after spending 3+ hours reading about it, watching videos, etc.

Lessons By Core Region (Golf Full Swing 7)

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This Lesson is an overview of the characteristics of each Core Region from address to club release in the full swing. Larry Rinker, PGA Tour Veteran, PGA Tour Sirius XM radio host, Teacher, Host of Larry Rinker...

I think a lot of what he's trying to show is a parlor trick. I think in the video showing grip size versus balance, the person is getting tired of having his weight out over his toes and settles back into a regular stance with the weight over his ankles. I could record a video like that where I flip the bat upside down and I'd start over the balls of my feet and settle back into the heels as I got to the thinner part of the bat.

I also really don't like this:

In reading the thing above… I first thought that was a setup position!

Now again, @Clemsonfan, this is not commentary on anything you're doing. It's commentary on what I see of this "system" or whatever you want to call it. You don't have to defend it or anything, and if you're liking what you're doing, I'm genuinely happy for you.

[iacas]

Also, @Clemsonfan, you should start a Member Swing topic to at least document what you're doing. If you don't want commentary from others, that's okay too.