Questions about Converting to Pelz Short Game

[Shindig]

As many of you know, last week I got my first new set of irons since my starter set. I've had some time in the past few days to bond with my new babies, and this morning I finally got around to chipping with my new wedges. I don't know why, but I feel that I can be more consistent with these than I could with my old, purchased-used Vokeys. Maybe because I know they're the right length, but that shouldn't matter for chipping. Maybe because they're forged instead of cast. Hoo boy, they felt great. Maybe it's a mental thing with shiny clubs.

Anyway, I was chipping and observed something that, in retrospect, is obvious: two chips with approximately the same swing will go approximately the same distance. What's more, I was thinking of the clock for positioning. Maybe this is because I spent half an hour yesterday reading the Pelz Short Game Bible at the nearby bookstore. After this morning's realization, I went to the bookstore and read his experimental methodology, which I liked.

So, despite my initial apprehension - Pelz's "Putting Like the Pros" was one of the first golf books I got, and I really didn't like it - I might be coming around to trying another Pelz book. It helps that I was reading the short game book and didn't feel like I was reading an infomercial.

I have a few hangups, and I'd like to check with the board about these:

* Is there more of value to the book beyond the wedge system? Will I find it significantly more useful to purchase and read the entire thing instead of digesting the pages on the wedge system in the bookstore?

* Will I be overloading and confusing myself by having read this AND Utley's book on the short game?

* If I follow his "four wedges" and keep my PW, I'll really have 5 wedges (47, 51, 56, 60, 64), since his technique is based around a 50-51 degree PW. Has anyone here successfully adapted his techniques to "modern" lofts? I saw it mentioned on a few threads, but very little other than that it was tried. However, with the end-result I'm thinking of, I should easily be able to get 4 total wedges (P-L) into my final bag. It helps that I'm within the 90 day rule for ten of my 14 clubs at the moment.


Many thanks for your help guys!

[iacas]

* Is there more of value to the book beyond the wedge system? Will I find it significantly more useful to purchase and read the entire thing instead of digesting the pages on the wedge system in the bookstore?

For me, no. I've always kind of made up my own short game stuff. The fundamentals are good, but I spent countless hours at home in my back yard with a wedge hitting the ball different heights, with different kinds of swings and stances, and even curving it all over with those wiffle golf balls.

So, the only thing that I got out of it was the 3x4 wedge stuff. The rest, well frankly I play it by ear (or eye!?) on the golf course these days. I don't care about how Dave Pelz thinks I should play a long chip out of slightly dewy, long grass. Or whatever other crap is in the book. I skimmed it once when I was bored - enough to know better than to read it.

Will I be overloading and confusing myself by having read this AND Utley's book on the short game?

Probably. From what I've read, Utley's approach is far more basic, far more "here are the fundamentals for a few shots - adopt them to the situation as warranted." Pelz is more "here is this swing, setup, etc. for this shot. Here's this swing, setup, etc. for another shot. And so on."

But again, I haven't read either (just the 3x4 wedge stuff from Pelz) in any depth. I have ordered the Utley book and expect it this week.

If I follow his "four wedges" and keep my PW, I'll really have 5 wedges (47, 51, 56, 60, 64), since his technique is based around a 50-51 degree PW. Has anyone here successfully adapted his techniques to "modern" lofts?

Dude, I use it with three wedges. Five is probably overkill. Who cares what his method is?

Here are my wedge yardages:

None

[Shindig]

Erik,

Thanks a million for your help! I'm going to head out and calibrate now. I have only 3 wedges at the moment, and I suspect I'll stick with them for the next few months, and I can make a more informed decision then.

[Doctorfro]

Frankly, I think we all play with way too many clubs. And Dave Pelz drives me crazy. Iacas is right. Experiment and learn for yourself what you can do. You'd be surprised how creative you can be with fewer clubs and varying swing lengths (and choke ups).

[Left Is Right]

My short game with chipping and pitching is very simple, minimum air time maximum roll time. I play with 4 wedges, 48pw, 52gw, 56sw, and 60lw. I have never read his short game Bible and I don't intend to.

I usaully use my pw and gw more than any other wedge. I only use my sw out of the sand or if im like 30 yards out with the pin in front of the green. And i rarely use my lw at all. My favorite shot is a bump and run, in fact i do it whenever possible.

[Shindig]

Between last night and this morning, I was able to get most of my yardages down, or at least an initial estimate that held for 20 shots each. I plan to do more shots of each to confirm as the week progresses, and for practice.

47° 34 - 55 - ?? - 95
51° 25 - 45 - ?? - 85
56° 16 - 35 - 60 - 75

The full shots are numbers I am basing on distance I hit a similarly-lofted club in my previous set, and I plan to find an open field somewhere to figure out exactness. The rest were based on the pitching area at a course I play, but while I was doing the 3/4 SW, I was told by a marshal that the "No chipping" sign on the *closed* putting green applied to the *open* pitching green too[1]. News to me.

So PW and GW 3/4 swings remain to be seen. But I do have a good range of distances covered, assuming I measured accurately.



[1] I barely even knew we had marshals at this course - my only previous experience was one telling me *not* to hit my 2nd shot on a par-5 (from 300 or so yards) until the green cleared, "just in case." Now I'm told not to use the pitching green. But that's off-topic for this thread.

[kurtbayne]

most libraries have the Pelz books to borrow
then buy later if you want
I personally like his stuff
You don't have to swallow everything whole of course
His system does require a commitment on your part
but then what system doesn't?

[rudygu]

* Is there more of value to the book beyond the wedge system? Will I find it significantly more useful to purchase and read the entire thing instead of digesting the pages on the wedge system in the bookstore?

There was some info comparing how different trajectories will react to different types of greens and different slopes that was interesting to read, but probably not enough other than the wedge system to justify buying the book.

* Will I be overloading and confusing myself by having read this AND Utley's book on the short game?

I would think so. I don't care for Pelz's swing techniques. Like iacas said, it's chapter after chapter of situational shot setups and swing methods. From what I've read by Utley in Golf Digest and on his website I highly prefer his methodology. If I were you, I would just read the Pelz book in the store and buy Utley's. I wish I had done this.

* If I follow his "four wedges" and keep my PW, I'll really have 5 wedges (47, 51, 56, 60, 64), since his technique is based around a 50-51 degree PW. Has anyone here successfully adapted his techniques to "modern" lofts? I saw it mentioned on a few threads, but very little other than that it was tried. However, with the end-result I'm thinking of, I should easily be able to get 4 total wedges (P-L) into my final bag. It helps that I'm within the 90 day rule for ten of my 14 clubs at the moment.

I'm currently calibrating my distances using 47,52,56, and 60 degree wedges and I'm yet to see any need for a 64. If anything, I may switch to 47,54,60 and put my 3 iron back in my bag. In other posts you have mentioned you are a short hitter...it may benefit you more to use 3 or 4 wedges rather than using 5 at the expense of long irons/hybrids in your bag.

[Shindig]

If I were you, I would just read the Pelz book in the store and buy Utley's. I wish I had done this.

Yep, Utley's two books are sitting on my shelf.

I'm currently calibrating my distances using 47,52,56, and 60 degree wedges and I'm yet to see any need for a 64. If anything, I may switch to 47,54,60 and put my 3 iron back in my bag. In other posts you have mentioned you are a short hitter...it may benefit you more to use 3 or 4 wedges rather than using 5 at the expense of long irons/hybrids in your bag.

Yeah. I'm a short hitter. I also have most of my distances covered with the wedges. So even the 60 isn't needed by me at this point. My full sand wedge is 75 yards. If that creeps up high enough that I'm missing important distances in my wedges, I'll consider a 60, but gaining 15 yards on an iron/wedge is sufficiently far in the future that I'm not worried.

And thanks for your in-depth answer. It helps me know that I made the right decision.

[mruseless]

I really like Dave Pelz's approach to the game, but probably because I am a former scientist myself. Very analytical types will love his approach, others will hate it.

I enjoyed reading the book because of all the research he put into it, but a year or so after reading it, the only thing I really took away was the 4x3 system. And maybe a little of the sand and chipping stuff.

I've also read Utley's book. I tried it and just couldn't get it to work for me. But I intend to read it again (its a quick read) and perhaps try it again. My impression of Utley's stuff is that it take a lot more practice to master distance his way than it does Pelz's way. But of course I am an analytical thinker.

[iacas]

I really like Dave Pelz's approach to the game, but probably because I am a former scientist myself. Very analytical types will love his approach, others will hate it.

Ditto. And I consider myself a bit more of a feel player, but that system enhanced my feel by providing concrete building blocks for me.

I've also read Utley's book. I tried it and just couldn't get it to work for me. But I intend to read it again (its a quick read) and perhaps try it again. My impression of Utley's stuff is that it take a lot more practice to master distance his way than it does Pelz's way. But of course I am an analytical thinker.

I dunno - I use both. I use Utley's style for chipping, pitching, and bunker play. Anything between about 40 to 120 yards, I use the Pelz 4x3 system.

[FortAsel]

Honestly, I think, the less, the better. I carry only a PW, a 56º wedge and a 60º wedge.
I can basically do anything with them.

I'll give you a few examples:

Chips
1) long chip with no or very little wind: 60º wedge, trying to fly it 2/3 and run it close;
2) Same chip shot, but with a lot of wind, PW, flying 1/6 of the length and run it close;

Bunker shots
1) Normal/Short BS, 60 wedge, up into the air, and "let it drop dead"
2) Long BS, 56 degree wedge, same thing

So has you can see, I keep it very simple. You don't need 1k of wedges. Do what you think should be done, and everything else will come

30-80 yds
Depens a hell of a lot of where the pin is, but I'd normally use my 60º wedge, and try to play it like a putt. No not rolling, but thinking like it was a putt, like has tiger says, "putt to the picture". In these shots, "I pitch to the picture".

As you can see I keep it has simple has I can. Do the same. It will help.

PS: I actually have a friend that basically uses a 58º wedge for any shot inside 100 meters. Thats has simple has you can get.