almost got kicked off a golf course today

[dave39]

since I just moved I am looking for new courses in my area. the 8th hole on the course i played this morning has an hour glass green with the pin tucked in the front right. I caught my approach thin and ended up on the back right part of the green.

You honestly could have just flipped him the bird and told him to get lost. He has no authority to physically touch you and you have done nothing wrong. If it escalated to the point where he was dumb enough to call the police to have you escorted off than you could tell the police that you had no intentions to cause any sort of disturbance or misunderstanding and that you were merely playing the game of golf. End of story from there.

[iacas]

You honestly could have just flipped him the bird and told him to get lost. He has no authority to physically touch you and you have done nothing wrong. If it escalated to the point where he was dumb enough to call the police to have you escorted off than you could tell the police that you had no intentions to cause any sort of disturbance or misunderstanding and that you were merely playing the game of golf. End of story from there.

Yeah, let's flip people off. That's the mature response.

Had he opted to call the police, he'd be well within his rights to ask you to be removed. It's private property (the rules vary slightly on municipal golf courses, but not much, and a bit more so at the various types of private club) and just like at a casino, they can ban you for whatever reason they'd like. If someone wants you off a golf course, they can kick you off a golf course.

I'm siding with the ranger, Iv'e seen Lefty do it on occasion, but he's playing for 7 figures. I would have a problem with it if it was at my course or any course for that matter. Iv'e seen divots on greens, I thought they were the actions of a drunk a hole missing a putt.

I'm siding with Three Putt on this one. We're only hearing

one side of the story, and even if we believe all of it with no subtle changes, I don't think the ranger behaved too far out of line. I have some doubts, too. The OP said "not even thinking about it" - heck, I'd think about it . I can count the number of times I've had to play a shot like that on one amputated hand, if you get my meaning. Of course I'd be thinking about it. Oooh, the ranger said "we don't do that around here." Such strong language. Perhaps the guy in the OP's group said to him "You're right, we should have done something, but we didn't see it in time. Let him finish and we'll keep an eye on the jerk to make sure he doesn't do that again." So I think you're over-reacting, OP. The smarter, safer, and more green friendly thing to do would have been to putt around. There may have even been contours to help you with that. You aren't Phil Mickelson, and it doesn't matter whether you DID pull the shot off. What matters is that you tried it, and that shows little respect to the golf course. It will only take one bad swing on something like that to tear out a good chunk of the green. To make a bad analogy: I'm not a doctor, so it doesn't matter whether I successfully remove someone's tonsils - I shouldn't have attempted the surgery to begin with. And no, I'm not telling everyone not to try shots just because they're not a pro. But when the risk is damage to the green, I'm urging caution. An extra stroke (the "worst" penalty) is far, far, far better a result than the worst mistake hitting a lob wedge could generate (a chunk out of the putting surface). Better analogy: John Daly turning around and hitting a driver over the crowd (was in the news, oh, 15 years ago or whatever). Also a bad move, and he is a pro.

[crawf061]

John Daly turning around and hitting a driver over the crowd (was in the news, oh, 15 years ago or whatever). Also a bad move, and he

Got any links? I've never heard of this.

[iacas]

Got any links? I've never heard of this.

It happened, and I didn't find any links about it in a quick search (likely because it was quite a long time ago). Remember, he won the PGA way back in 1991 and his British win was 13 years ago. The Internet wasn't exactly "huge" back then and a lot of articles may not be online.

[doublesuited77]

well, i can count the number of times i have hit that shot on a golf course on all my fingers, toes and then some.

to a previous poster's point, if a golf course didn't want people doing shot like this, then they should have considered it in the course design. and not created hourglass green with large humps in the middle.

Erik, would you answer to the question be different if this was a USGA tourney or even a club tournament? would your answer be different if it was a pro versus versus a single digit handicapper versus a 30 handicap?

it is the course's right to ask me not to hit this shot? absolutely. It is also within my rights to ask for a portion of my green fees back. when you get into the golf course business, you assume that people will play the course within the commonly agreed upon rules and practices of golf, unless you explicitly create a rule to the contrary.

Erik, what if the next time you played a short 290-yard par 4, the ranger said to you. "Son, we would appreciate if you didn't try to drive the green here. We don't do that around here. It slows play and can leave big marks on the greens. Don't worry, it will probably only cost you a stroke." Would you still be more than happy to follow his advice?

[sacm3bill]

Help me understand something: If pin locations are changed daily at most courses, and if they can obviously plug and repair the old hole locations just fine in the process, then why is a divot on the green left by the rare lob shot that big a deal? Is it just that the divot won't be repaired till the next morning?

[iacas]

they should have considered it in the course design. and not created hourglass green with large humps in the middle.

Perhaps the humps are there to help you steer a putt around the corner. Either way, that sort of discussion is irrelevant since we've not seen the green.

Erik, would you answer to the question be different if this was a USGA tourney or even a club tournament?

Maybe, but they likely wouldn't have put the pin there in such a tournament.

would your answer be different if it was a pro versus versus a single digit handicapper versus a 30 handicap?

I'm not terribly interested in answering hypotheticals, but if forced, no, it probably wouldn't change.

It is also within my rights to ask for a portion of my green fees back.

It's your right to ask, but whether or not they actually give you any of your fees back wouldn't be a "right" at all or not. That's a customer service issue, nothing else.

unless you explicitly create a rule to the contrary.

Perhaps the ranger was trying to tell you (poorly) that not hitting wedge from the green IS their unwritten (or written somewhere) rule? I'd call it a pretty well understood "unwritten rule" that you not hit wedges from the greens, just like not hitting your drive when someone's putting on a nearby hole, and other items of more refined etiquette.

Erik, what if the next time you played a short 290-yard par 4, the ranger said to you. "Son, we would appreciate if you didn't try to drive the green here.

I don't care to respond to a straw man argument. It's not the same situation at all.

Is it just that the divot won't be repaired till the next morning?

That divot has to get put somewhere. The best they can really do by cutting holes is to move it off to the side, but they still shouldn't have to do that. Plus, I'd be worried not just about one divot, but about two, three, or a few more showing up, too. If it's an understanding or an unwritten rule, that keeps that number at zero rather than three or four per day. If you allow it, some people would put balls there just to try it.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't do it, we've only heard one side of the whole argument, and I think the ranger likely had a valid point but didn't express it very well.

[chipper2]

Without hearing both sides of the story it is hard to say who was right and who was wrong. It is my experience that most rangers are just doing their jobs and are very nice in the way they do it. One of my favorite things to say to a nice range. "Hey Lone Ranger where is Tonto." That usually brings a smile and some interesting chatter.

[Eore]

if i ever play a green that gives me no shot to the hole even if i'm on the green, i'm flopping it. sorry, but if its designed like that, i have every right as a golfer to try to get the ball in the whole in the quickest way possible.

[TheThein11]

I personally would not play that shot buts thats because i know i am not good enough to do it without leaving some kind of mark. If you are able to make and are sure you will not hurt the green than I see no problem playing it that way especially with the hour glass shape of the green.

[Eore]

I personally would not play that shot buts thats because i know i am not good enough to do it without leaving some kind of mark. If you are able to make and are sure you will not hurt the green than I see no problem playing it that way especially with the hour glass shape of the green.

i see the logic behind this, but if the course designer is making a shot that hits the green no change at one putting for birdie, then the superintendent can afford to re-plant a small section of green once in a while

[iacas]

i see the logic behind this, but if the course designer is making a shot that hits the green no change at one putting for birdie, then the superintendent can afford to re-plant a small section of green once in a while

That's the thing: we don't know if you couldn't make a putt from back there. The OP said there were "humps" or something, and without us seeing what he faced, we can't know whether the ball was makeable via putting.

If it's not, we get into an architectural/design debate.

[Spectrums]

Any chance at pics OP?

[doublesuited77]

Any chance at pics OP?

not in the short-term, but trust me based on being a single digit handicap for the past 10 years, the only way to putt the ball within 25 feet of the hole would have been to put through at least 2 feet of primary rough.

[pat8]

Snedeker did something like this at the Masters, chipped on the green because there was rough between his ball and the hole; however, he was trying to win a major. In this case, the golfer wasn't breaking the rules exactly, but since it was a private club that can kick people off just because they feel like it, the ranger had the right to do what he did, so really, neither side is right and neither is wrong.

[CG031]

Snedeker didn't take a full swing flop shot though. It's was a little chip.

[MrKadash]

I think the issue is twofold: whether the OP's decision to play that type of shot and; the reaction by the ranger, were appropriate. I can't answer both because I wasn't there. It would seem logical that if there was ever a chance that a green contour would support that type of shot, the intention of the club to either support or frown on the strike should be posted on either the scorecard, pro shop, or on the hole itself. Just simply expecting the player to make that judgment doesn't work in my experience.

[Catul]

well, i can count the number of times i have hit that shot on a golf course on all my fingers, toes and then some.

You've had to chip/flop from the putting surface multiple times?? LOL, stop hitting your shots so far off line

Erik, would you answer to the question be different if this was a USGA tourney or even a club tournament? would your answer be different if it was a pro versus versus a single digit handicapper versus a 30 handicap?

IMHO, it's bad etiquette to take a wedge out on the putting green when playing a casual/practice round. If this were a tournament, by all means do what you have to do to get the ball closest to the hole; but it sounds like you were playing a casual round, and I think the ranger was right to admonish you for hitting a lob shot on the putting green. Frankly, I'm with Erik - you just don't need to do that in this situation - doesn't matter what your handicap/ability is.