The Stack and Tilt Swing, by Plummer and Bennett

[tm22721]

The best way to get consistent is to pursue good ball contact with compression. Hogan was the master he pured almost every shot, very distinctive sound at impact according to eyewitnesses. Pros would follow him with jaws dropped. His release was so consistent because he got rid of all critical timing, ie no intentional lateral movement, no swing plane change going from up to down, no crossover release with the hands.

Simple = reliable.

[pshizz]

i heard that with stack and tilt that you lose yards because it is hard to make a full shoulder turn... is this true?

[Baraethon]

Isn't one of the purposes to gan yards?

[jmoc]

i heard that with stack and tilt that you lose yards because it is hard to make a full shoulder turn... is this true?

Gave me more yards and more accuracy, like the one guy said earlier, I hit more pure shots. I've never been big on a full shoulder turn, more of a Paul Azinger type swing, so that has not been a issue. I find that generating torque in my core produces more power than a longer swing, of course I'm only 5'6". If your 6', you could generate a lot of power with width, I cannot.

Several years ago I shot 78-83 consistently with that swing, messed around with it and lost it. Saw the GD article last year and went out and shot 80 that afternoon, bogeyed 9 and 18 for 40-40, really ticked me off. Love the S&T;, but it's not for everyone.... jmoc

[loopy]

I've been waffleing between S&T; and sticking with Hogan's 5. Seems if I practice S&T; and then go back to the Hogan method I make better contact by getting to my left side at impact; however it seems short lived. I'd really like to commit to one swing but inconsistencies always creep in and then I'm ready toswitch again.

[Baraethon]

Never heard of Hogan's 5... Can you link me to some article about it or something?

[loopy]

Sorry just got lazy not wanting to type Hogan's Five Fundemantals (Hogan's 5). Great book I usually read through the different sections on an as needed basis depending on what I'm working on.

[I KyotE I]

Isn't one of the purposes to gan yards?

What's distance if you can't hit your target. Some great players don't hit huge drives. I guess maybe that's just how I learned it and everyone has their own thoughts though.

[RC]

I get a newsletter from one of the top 25 golf academies (as ranked by Golf Magazine) and the head guy and his staff have said that only one or two of the tour guys who have gone to stack and tilt actually have improved their swing statistics. I don't know if this is true or not, but that is what these guys publish in their newsletter. They don't say to not do it, only that it has not produced the results on tour for the majority of those that try it. Hogan certainly did not use the stack and tilt on full shots.

No matter really... I learned a long time ago that there are many strange looking and less than orthodox swings (and grips) that can play lights out. If you saw Orville Moody or Jim Furyk swinging from a distance... you would think "no way." Zinger's grip would not work for many of us. One plane, two plane, stack and tilt, or conventional; what produces the lowest scores for you? Use that swing.

[jonjones]

I started playing about 3 years ago. I was forced take some time off for over a year. I’ve been back to playing for about 4 months straight. My HC is 18 now and slowly improving. Since I saw this post a few days ago I have tried a few of the fundamentals of the S&T.; Although I have only been practicing with it on the range for 3 days, I have been striking the ball better. The biggest thing I have noticed is I am keeping my head still a lot more. I used to be worried about where I was hitting the ball and would always pick my head up. The other thing was the weight shift. It has been hard to get that into my subconscious. So far S&T; feels ok but the test will be on the course this weekend. Lets see if I can get in the "trusting" mode.

[Guest]

I purchased the dvd's and I have never hit the ball so crisply. I have been playing 35 yrs and I'm hitting the ball better than ever.I love the method although I do not use it with the driver and fairway woods but my iron play is superb. I do want to critique the lessons by Plummer and Bennett. They seem to be very amateurish in the making of the video.They never seem to hit straight shots just the ones that hook and slice too much to show you what not to do. There is way too much talking and not enough action. The camera work is terrible. I have many videos in my collection and these boys should have gotten Johnny Miller to show them how to make a video. THERE IS PLENTY OF VIDEO ON THE WEB TO LEARN THE METHOD, DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THE DVD'S,BUT THE METHOD WORKS

[Prodigy]

from what i understand about this swing it seems like a good way to create consistancy but it just seams like a huge fad but what ever helps you build a efficient swing is what counts

[jonjones]

well, i tried it las weekend and here's how it went. i played on a par 60 course. i only hit about 10 balls on the range to warm up. the front 9 was horrible. i shot a 44. i just couldnt find my groove (not to mention 3-putts on both par 4's). i didnt want to abandon the s&t; so i stuck with it. on the back 9 i started to trust my swing and got in rythm and shot a 36.

more time is needed to realy understand this swing, but, i feel good on the range, and my back is not as sore. we'll lets see how i play this weekend.

from what i understand about this swing it seems like a good way to create consistancy but it just seams like a huge fad but what ever helps you build a efficient swing is what counts

i dont know if i would go as far as calling it a 'fad', but, it has generated alot of attention. i was listening to a commentator (dont remember who) a while back. he said, that eventhough the pro's might have different swing types (furyk, perry, weir, etc) they all look the same at impact. i agree with you Prodigy, what counts is an efficient swing.

[jmoc]

As I've mentioned earlier, I backed into this swing on my own just tinkering and tweaking after about 5 years of golf, shot the best scores ever for me, then continued the tinkering and lost it all. Have gotten back on track after the GD article turned the light back on. I've been close the last month or so and it has all really kicked back in, my last 2 nines were 39 - 39. It works for me, but like Natural Golf or the Reverse C, it is not for everyone. Now, for the most part, if I miss a green, it is long or short (misclubing on my part).... jmoc

[loopy]

I'd really like to trust the swing I'll have 2-3 good rounds using the S&T;, but then I'll start thinning the ball and pushing everything right, or hit some nasty hooks. Are the hands (wrists) supposed to be passive using the Stack and Tilt? Once purley by accident I sort of melded Hogans fundametals and the Stack and Tilt and never hit the ball better, unfortunatley I can't seem to figure out what I did.!.!

[jmoc]

Are the hands (wrists) supposed to be passive using the Stack and Tilt?

For me, yes. I use a strong grip and was amazed at how passive my hands have become using this swing and yet how far I'm knocking the ball. I feels almost like I just need to "start" the downswing (smoothly) and the rest just falls into place. I was a really handsy player before, so it took a while to trust that the ball really would go where I wanted it to without me having to manipulate the clubhead. Your alignment and the line you take it back on really determine where it will go. It took me, literally, 2 years to solidify a swing and even then there are times and even days that i'm just off. Unless you are just naturally gifted, you will not change and trust/rely/have confidence in your new swing for, quite possibly, a year or two. But you should see some results as you go along, do not let the few bad swings discourage you.... jmoc

[loopy]

Thanks jmoc. One thing I've noticed with the stack and tilt is if I don't try to kill the ball I acutally get better distance and control; however the testosterone then kicks in and I think.."well maybe just a little harder and the ball will go further". Boy you'd think I'd learn by now.

[RC]

Just to keep the conversation going (but not flamingly, so) here is another opinion: The S&T; may work for a toned down swing, but might just as well fall apart with a juiced up swing. I only suggest this because 3/4 shots and throttled back swings can feel very solid, and produce great results, but when reaching back for a 300 yard drive on a long par 5, I don't see how one can avoid loading the inside right leg to get the power you need to uncoil and smash it. The S&T; swing has caused a lot of discussion and opinions, but the large majority of pros and teachers I've talked with are not really advocates, but many will say... well, it you hit more accurate shots with it then go with what works." Or, something to that effect.

I am not in the S&T; camp mostly because it would take me years to ever get to a decent evaluation of the technique for my own possible use. It is not so simple as just keeping more weight on the left foot. I actually do that on short lobs and chips already, but never on full shots. When I see younger S&T; swingers, I wonder if their backs will last a long time -- it looks a bit stressful to me -- not a natural motion for launching a powerful shot.

Ok, comments welcome, but no flames... just conversation please.

Thanks,