wow, my new AP2's are burning it up!

[BigDaddy_Sean]

shot a 79 today from the tips at Fieldstone in Auburn Hills, MI, about 7100 yards .. so only a few holes i hit wedges in .. most everything else was from 5 iron to PW ..

I didn't have one real miss with the AP2's .. a few were a groove or two low which resulted in a shot short of the green and resulted in bogeys ..

but wow, to go back to blades after 10 years on cavity backs .. i was able to punch the ball, cut the ball, draw the ball .. hit a 10 yard cut around a tree with an 8 iron to 4 feet for my only birdie.

i was about 5 - 10 yards off distances, mainly short from my tour burners, but i was constantly hitting them solid ... which felt real good!

they are staying in the bag for a long time!

[Dub]

Cool....glad your new sticks are doing well for you.

I really like the AP series from Titleist.

[winders]

but wow, to go back to blades after 10 years on cavity backs .. i was able to punch the ball, cut the ball, draw the ball .. hit a 10 yard cut around a tree with an 8 iron to 4 feet for my only birdie.

I am glad you get along with the AP2 irons so well. I love my AP2 irons too, but they are not blades.

S-

[Zachwright1]

shot a 79 today from the tips at Fieldstone in Auburn Hills, MI, about 7100 yards .. so only a few holes i hit wedges in .. most everything else was from 5 iron to PW ..

I dont mean any disrespect at all but I noticed you said you had a 2.9 handicap and you shot a 79? Is the course really hard or something?

[Bump-n-MI]

I dont mean any disrespect at all but I noticed you said you had a 2.9 handicap and you shot a 79? Is the course really hard or something?

I'm a 3.2 and was something like 12 over through 15 holes 2 weeks ago (happened to be playing with Sean). We got rained out but was well on my way to a high 80's score. High scores happen with any hdcp. My last 5 rounds were:

78 81 37 (9 hole) 74 75 I'm pretty sure Fieldstone playes to a 74.4/142 from the tips….not an easy course at all.

[Zachwright1]

I'm a 3.2 and was something like 12 over through 15 holes 2 weeks ago (happened to be playing with Sean). We got rained out but was well on my way to a high 80's score. High scores happen with any hdcp. My last 5 rounds were:

Yeah, looking back I guess he wasn't really even talking about his round score he was more talking about some great shots. I wasn't trying to insinuate that he was lying. so I apologize if that's how it seemed.

[N.V.M.]

blades? they are in fact DUAL cavity, multi material clubs.

[CG031]

Yeah, blades is a bit of a stretch. But a 79 is a nice accomplishment, course sounds real tough.

[fusioncal]

shot a 79 today from the tips at Fieldstone in Auburn Hills, MI, about 7100 yards .. so only a few holes i hit wedges in .. most everything else was from 5 iron to PW ..

If you're into AP2 that much, I do really hope you'll try out Mizuno MP-52.

Notice that pocket cavity in the back of AP2? They're milled out of one piece forged head in MP-52 instead of AP2's multi-material construction/weld. I'm sure you know what I mean. Here's a video and 3D view of MP-52 .

[Lefty731PM]

shot a 79 today from the tips at Fieldstone in Auburn Hills, MI, about 7100 yards .. so only a few holes i hit wedges in .. most everything else was from 5 iron to PW ..

Errrrrr......AP2s......blades........???????? What would you call the cavity on these clubs? A solid mass of steel? Sorry, cavitIES.

[winders]

If you're into AP2 that much, I do really hope you'll try out Mizuno MP-52.

No, why don't you tell us what you mean.

The Mizuno "Dual Muscle" is nothing more than a marketing term. One "Muscle" is in the cavity and the other is the bottom of the iron. In other words, just another way of forming a cavity back. The milled pocket cavity in the longer irons lets Mizuno move the cg lower and deeper. The MP-52 fits between the MP-57 and the MX line. Titleist is able move more weight around in the AP2 using a dual cavity design with a lower box structure (a different way to do what the milled pocket cavity does). The box structure is formed with a tungsten nickel back/sole piece. There is a central cross member which provides rigidity just like the "Muscle" in the cavity of the MP-52. The elastomer insert along with the aluminum cavity plate and tungsten nickel back/sole piece dampen vibration and tune the sound of the iron. Mizuno, using a one piece forging, is limited in what they can do to move weight around and tune the feel and sound of the iron. You can only do so much using the same playbook. That's why Titleist decided to think out of the box and come out with a whole new design using multiple materials in a multi-piece head. The MP-52 is an MP-style (players) head with some of the forgiveness features found in the MX (GI) line. But lets not get carried away with what the MP-52 is. I don't see how the MP-52 irons are going to be significantly different than the MP-60 or MP-57. The Mizuno technology has not changed. Titleist used multiple materials to make a more advance iron. There is nothing substantially new in the MP-52 that would cause there to be a new level of performance. S-

[fusioncal]

No, why don't you tell us what you mean.

I'll tell you straight away, IMHO, softer feel.

Titleist is able move more weight around in the AP2 using a dual cavity design with a lower box structure (a different way to do what the milled pocket cavity does). The box structure is formed with a tungsten nickel back/sole piece. There is a central cross member which provides rigidity just like the "Muscle" in the cavity of the MP-52. The elastomer insert along with the aluminum cavity plate and tungsten nickel back/sole piece dampen vibration and tune the sound of the iron.

I agree with you. However, coming from Callaway Fusion which packed with technology and multi-materials construction, and now Mizuno MP-60 I have to say that nothing beats the feel of purely forged clubs.

I still remember the first time AP2 was going to introduced, the majority of the previews on another forum said that AP2 looked ugly and very un-Titleist. I'm pretty much sure Titleist is well known for their traditional clubs. Their introduction of such clubs might have 'intimidated' some people. I'm not saying that thinking out of the box is wrong, but I just did not expect it came from Titleist. On the other end, Mizuno is still cruising on the same highway even with the contender of AP2, MP-52. Simple and clean design compared to that AP2 seem to appeal people who prefer a more traditional irons look. To me Mizuno delivers that in an elegant way. And as far as moving to weight around to promote forgiveness in multi-material clubs, well I think Mizuno wants to keep the thought that water needs to taste just like water in contrast to flavored water with a hint of peach, for example. Forged clubs can only provide so much forgiveness (no moving the weight around) just take it as it is. If you need more forgiveness, Mizuno does have MX lines to provide that. Last for not least, I'm not trying to bash AP2 or whatever. In the feel department I have a hunch that MP-52 feels better than AP2 (clicky and not soft enough). And from the look alone, I'd choose MP-52 over AP2. This has been my .02 cents.

[winders]

I agree with you. However, coming from Callaway Fusion which packed with technology and multi-materials construction, and now Mizuno MP-60 I have to say that nothing beats the feel of purely forged clubs.

Now the distinction is "purely forged"? Unlike the Fusions, the AP2 irons are forged out of 1025 mild carbon steel, just like the Mizuno line of forged clubs. In other words, the face of the club is just as soft as the face on the MP-52, MP-57, or MP-60.

A lot of people had not seen the AP2 irons in person when they said they did not like the look. Most people changed their tune after seeing the irons and even more changed their minds after hitting the AP2 irons! I have hit a variety of Mizuno irons, including the MP-57 and MP-60, and have owned and played MX-25 irons for over a year. All of them great irons. I have owned and played AP2 irons for 25 or so rounds of golf now. I can tell you that the AP2 irons feel just as soft as the anything I have hit in the Mizuno line. If anything, they feel a little softer. I suspect that has to do with the muted sound Titleist went after using the elastomer insert and aluminum cavity plate. You say you are not trying to bash the AP2 irons yet your text does just that. You water analogy is laughable. You clearly come from the camp that thinks forged irons are the only way to go. You even knock multi-material irons that are forged. What, the pedigree is not "pure" enough?? Look, the AP2 irons are awesome. They feel great. They are forgiving for a player's iron yet allow the player to make all the shots a player's iron should. And they do that in an attractive and durable package. S-

[fusioncal]

Now the distinction is "purely forged"? Unlike the Fusions, the AP2 irons are forged out of 1025 mild carbon steel, just like the Mizuno line of forged clubs. In other words, the face of the club is just as soft as the face on the MP-52, MP-57, or MP-60.

You call my previous post a bashing? If that's a bashing, the word of "not too bright" is equally offensive as "idiot."

My water analogy is laughable? That's uncalled for. Did I say anything wrong to you on my post or something? Wow! You just made this personal. "...the AP2 irons are forged out of 1025 mild carbon steel, just like the Mizuno line of forged clubs. In other words, the face of the club is just as soft as the face on the MP-52, MP-57, or MP-60." Just like Mizuno clubs? Now this is laughable. Clearly Titleist site provide how they made AP2, and yet you still insist it is the same with Mizuno? Here's what I meant by purely forged; forged from a single billet of carbon steel and no more additional material. Elastomer insert? Aluminum cavity plate? Laser welded tungsten nickel box? Do you find those materials in MP-52? Nope. Again, you said they're "just like Mizuno clubs" Laughable! "A lot of people had not seen the AP2 irons in person when they said they did not like the look. Most people changed their tune after seeing the irons and even more changed their minds after hitting the AP2 irons!" I have seen, held in person and hit AP2. My impression are bulky and clicky. Ball flight is nice and quite high with little fade. "I have owned and played AP2 irons for 25 or so rounds of golf now. I can tell you that the AP2 irons feel just as soft as the anything I have hit in the Mizuno line. If anything, they feel a little softer." This is the first time I've heard that comment. Clearly you can't feel what's soft and what's not. Honestly, I feel pity for you. I didn't expect anymore response from you as what we've talked about was quite off topic. This thread is meant to discuss the thread starter's AP2, not in general. Now, back to topic.

[winders]

fusioncal,

Come on, that water analogy was insulting to the AP2 irons. The tone of your post suggesting that multi-material forged irons are inferior to single piece forged irons is what caused me to respond.

In regards to my quote that you say is laughable, did you actually read what I wrote? Apparently not. The AP2 irons are forged out of 1025 mild carbon steel. As I noted in a previous post in this thread, there are other materials used to make the irons. But the main body and face of the AP2 iron are made out of the same material as the Mizuno MP line. No where did I say or imply that the AP2 irons were made "just like Mizuno clubs".

The reason the AP2 irons feel softer to me than the MP-60 or MP-57 irons is likely the elastomer insert and aluminum cavity plate. The main body and face of the AP2 is the same 1025 carbon steel used in the MP-60 and MP-57. So the actual feel off the face is going to be the same. The actual sound and vibration of the iron is muted by the elastomer insert and aluminum cavity plate. Elastomer inserts don't do anything but mute sound and feel. So, unless you can come up with an explanation of how a 1025 iron head with an elastomer insert can feel more "clicky" than a 1025 iron head with no inserts, your position that the AP2 is more "clicky" does not make sense. The muted sound and feel of the AP2 irons initially caused me some concern. But that went away when I realized I was getting all the feedback I needed. Just in a more subtle manor.

The AP2 irons are hardly bulky. They are no more bulky than the MP-57 irons.

Finally, the AP2 irons are used by many golfers on every Tour and have been quite successful. How many players with use Mizuno MP-57, MP-52, or MP-62 irons on any Tour? Yes, I realize that Mizuno does not have nearly the presense on the professional level that Titleist has. The point being that the AP2 irons are awesome irons.....

I am a Mizuno fan and think that Mizuno makes an awesome product. But knocking the AP2 irons because they use a multi-material design, that is actually more technically advanced, is crazy.

S-

[Lefty731PM]

If you're into AP2 that much, I do really hope you'll try out Mizuno MP-52.

Geez - He only just got his AP2s and loves them. Says they're in his bag for a long time. Why would he be trying MP-52s?

[Lefty731PM]

Finally, the AP2 irons are used by many golfers on every Tour and have been quite successful. How many players with use Mizuno MP-57, MP-52, or MP-62 irons on any Tour? Yes, I realize that Mizuno does not have nearly the presense on the professional level that Titleist has. The point being that the AP2 irons are awesome irons.....

Players are paid millions to play certain clubs under contract. Mizuno chooses not to focus on this aspect to attract customers. People buy their clubs based on feedback from everywhere - not just what they see on TV. Davis Love recently renewed his Titleist contract for $40 million odd over 10 years. Do you think he'd swap over to Mizuno if he liked the feel of them? Titleist have chosen the endorse, endorse and endorse route and it has worked for them. Doesn't make them better or worse. On a "reputation for quality and feel" basis, Mizuno is at least the equal of Titleist in terms of irons.

[907golfer12]

Players are paid millions to play certain clubs under contract. Mizuno chooses not to focus in this aspect to attract customers. People buy their clubs based on feedback from everywhere - not just what they see on TV. Davis Love recently renewed his Titleist contract for $40 million odd over 10 years. Do you think he's swap over to Mizuno if he liked the feel of them? Titleist have chosen the endorse, endorse and endorse route and it has worked for them. Doesn't make them better or worse.

You also must realize that while negotiating contracts the players can say I will use your company's drivers, fairway woods, hybrids, wedges and putter, but I want to use any irons that I like. So if Davis Love wanted to use Mizuno irons that bad he would negotiate that into his contract.