Designed from the Professional Tees?

[1UnderU]

My roommate and I were having this conversation the other day after I said I like playing from the back tees because I felt like that is the way the hole is designed to be played. I'm an 11 HDCP and hit pretty long so playability isn't an issue.

My ? is do you think that Golf courses are designed, i.e. the angles, bunkers, curves, doglegs, mounds, everything, to be played from the professional tees?

He had thought they design courses to play from the middle tees and simply just move the tees back a few yards to make professional ones.

[mposter]

When I have played really well designed courses - it seems that every tee has been thought out. The design forces scratch golfers (most of SandTrap it seems) to hit difficult shots but allows easier bail outs from the shorter tees.

Everytime I walk Pine Valley (I have never played but walk it when it is open for the Crump Cup) I am amazed how well each hole is layed out. It is something to behold.

[st0wgolf08]

When I have played really well designed courses - it seems that every tee has been thought out. The design forces scratch golfers (most of SandTrap it seems) to hit difficult shots but allows easier bail outs from the shorter tees.

FYI, probably only like 5 percent of sandtrap are scratches, or at least from the people that have been active that's what i see. I hope to be down there though by the end of next season.

[dave s]

Perhaps some of the 'old school' course designs were optimized for the back tees, but this begs to question, were they building a course to attract the PGA?

In my experience, most newer courses (built after 1980 or so) have been designed for playability across many skill levels. A good example are the courses Jack Nicklaus designs. If you play a few, all hazards are equally accessable from the black, blue, white, gold and red tees respectively! I read a long article on him that talked about his design style. The article was like 'the life of Jack today' with the writer following him throughout a two day period.

While talking his way through a couple of designs with the guys building the course, he was asking questions like, 'how far are the fairway bunkers from each tee box?' Also asking things like the yardage to the dogleg from each tee box.

I'm not a long hitter, so playing courses from tees that measure 6200-6400 is fair and enjoyable to me. Most courses playing that length still have plenty of trouble to be had from those tees.

The courses I DON'T like are those with one tee box and virtually no yardage difference between the 'tips' and white tees. Why bother?

dave

[goblue107501]

Thinking about this I would say that most courses are. My big reason would be that in the 'good' courses I play regularly, it is completley relative.

From the back tees, a sand trap or dogleg that is 310 yards from the tee is a good position for a pro. If you move up a set of tees the same hazard would be maybe 275-280 from the tee. Go up one more set and it might be 240-250 from the tee. So regardless of the skill level the hazard is relative to the skill of the golfer off a particular tee.

If someone hits a driver 270, then he could go over the hazard from the first set, and probably wouldn't reach it from the back. From the middle tee he may have to think about what to do.

I always was under the assumption that is how courses are designed. Whatever tee box you play, if that tee fits your skill level, then the course difficultly will be the same for all players.

[tjy355]

My ? is do you think that Golf courses are designed, i.e. the angles, bunkers, curves, doglegs, mounds, everything, to be played from the professional tees?

I think it really does depend on the course.

For many older designs, it might be true. Problem is, a lot of courses have been messed with in an attempt to add length and sometimes this screws up the shot values. In these cases, the regular tees might actually be closer to what the original design was intended. I'd say that most properly designed modern courses are set up so that the angles and shot values translate from tee to tee, depending on the golfer's length and skill level. Dave S. and GoBlue give good explanations of this. In general, I find the blind philosophy of "I'm playing the tips because that's how the course was intended.." to be a bit distasteful. Obviously it depends on the course, but I believe the average hacker should not be playing the back tees.

[clubhousehero]

I know my course was built in the 1960's and it just added back tees a few years ago.