A New Argument for Blades and Against Game Improvement Cavity Backs (for me anyway)

[retozimmermann]

Hi All

I'm fairly new to the forum, as you can see, but have read tons and tons about the old blade vs. CB discussion. At this point I do not want to re-heat the arguments around having blades to be forced to improve your ball-striking vs. high-handicappers and seldom-players will never have the consistency to strike blades correctly , but rather go into a somewhat different direction, which I would love to hear your arguments about.

As you can see I'm one of the high-handicappers, having only started this year with more serious golfing after years of neglect. On average I play about once a week and spend some time with serious practice. My game ranges from about 22 HC to probably about 40 on a really bad day, but on average I'm somewhat below my 32.0. A good part of that is due to horrible putting and some horrible playing errors.

It's these errors that I would like to talk about. This weekend I spent some time on the course and on the driving range with a pro who had MP-33s. I compared them on various occasions to my own MX-25s and, yet again, confirmed that optically and regarding weight distribution I much favoured the blades. My good hits with them were thrilling and my bad hits abysmal.

Certainly, I do realise that a slight mis-hit with the MX-25s will yield the better result than the same mis-hit with the MPs. Never the less: what is it that makes my scores skyrocket apart from my putting disabilities? Usually it is disastrous mistakes in my swing, alignment, or grip which cause me to completely ruin a shot. And by completely ruin I'm not talking about a slight heel or toe hit which loses some distance. I'm talking about those neck-braking fat-hits or occasional "toppings".

Couldn't this be an argument to go for whatever club is more appealing to you and gives you more confidence and to almost entirely disregard the whole "forgiveness-discussion"? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers
Reto

[I <3 Titleist]

Hi All

I honestly can speak because I've been dealing with a something like this since April.

My first set of irons when I began playing golf this spring were a set of old ass Titleist DCI blades. They were hand me downs. They were very difficult to get used to, but even being only a few months into the game, I was able to hit them well enough to shoot in the low 90's consistently. (I will say though, that I practiced with my irons every day on a very large bermuda grass field with a bucket of balls. I practiced 10x more than I actually played.) I just recently upgraded to a new set of irons and chose some that as visually appealing as my previous irons, but much more forgiving. (Titty 755's) What I've found is that the forgiveness of having a cavity back will immediately lead to better scores, if you're not an absolutely great ball striker. Yes, you can hit blades. Anyone can. However, you can find clubs with a smaller head size, and thinner toplines and still have a cavity on the back of them. And you'll be able to hit them where you want to, and with much better action on the ball. I will say though, that my new clubs have given me distance, and much more forgiveness on my mis hits. And that gives me much more confidence than the way my golf clubs look at address. If you flub your shots often, I'd say nothing will help you more than daily swing practice. Take a lesson, and then apply it.

[Elvisliveson]

[QUOTE=I <3 Titleist;223305]
What I've found is that the forgiveness of having a cavity back will immediately lead to better scores, if you're not an absolutely great ball striker. Yes, you can hit blades. Anyone can. However, you can find clubs with a smaller head size, and thinner toplines and still have a cavity on the back of them. And you'll be able to hit them where you want to, and with much better action on the ball.

Exactly my take on the subject. Many pros even use cavity backs; most amateurs should use them. Why make things more difficult than they have to be?

[odstore]

Usually it is disastrous mistakes in my swing, alignment, or grip which cause me to completely ruin a shot.

If you know that you are having problems with your alignment and grip I think that should be your top priority. IMO you should learn good fundamentals with the clubs you have and then worry about getting a new set. Also, I'd say if playing once a week is "more serious golfing" then I wouldn't buy blades. If you're swinging well blades can be very rewarding but if your swing is off they can be very frustrating. I would say that if your not going to be getting out multiple times per week and have a 30+ handicap then I'd hold off until you feel like you are better than the irons you're currently playing.

[retozimmermann]

If you know that you are having problems with your alignment and grip I think that should be your top priority. IMO you should learn good fundamentals with the clubs you have and then worry about getting a new set. Also, I'd say if playing once a week is "more serious golfing" then I wouldn't buy blades. If you're swinging well blades can be very rewarding but if your swing is off they can be very frustrating. I would say that if your not going to be getting out multiple times per week and have a 30+ handicap then I'd hold off until you feel like you are better than the irons you're currently playing.

I absolutely agree with all of the above. I'm pretty happy with my clubs and am indeed working on those fundamentals, also with lessons. So for me this is not a question of going out and buying blades. It is more a question if the discussion that is so often being had is actually the right discussion. (And, btw: as long as there are many Tour players with my exact clubs they can't be the reason for any bad playing

That's the advantage of having good material that suits you - it can never be the material's fault, it's always yours. In a way that's comforting to know.) If on a bad round one has two to three holes with zero Stfd points and loses another 6-12 Pts with Putting, it is pretty easy to see where and what to work on. My argument is that maybe this wouldn't be any different with other clubs anywhere in the range between Blades and SGI irons. For the sake of empirical testing, I will try to go and play a round with someone's blades. I wouldn't be surprised if my score would be about the same as any other time

[Bourbon and Coke]

Depends on your definition of "good" and your personal goals.

Most players will have better results and more fun by playing cavity backs.

[firstcut]

If on a bad round one has two to three holes with zero Stfd points and loses another 6-12 Pts with Putting, it is pretty easy to see where and what to work on. My argument is that maybe this wouldn't be any different with other clubs anywhere in the range between Blades and SGI irons.

So, what you're really saying is "If I suck, I might as well suck with hard to hit blades"?

IMHO, you will get better faster with game improvement irons and enjoy the game more. So, while you suck now, with blades you will suck longer (and may never improve playing once a week).. With game improvement irons you will enjoy the game more, faster.. Good luck...

[wachesawgolfer]

All anybody played 60 + years ago were blades and by and large they were all better ball strikers than today. One point of note club manufacturers keep making irons longer which makes them all harder to hit. I read Hogan's 5 iron was a standard 37, now that 5 in some sets is 38.75, longer than Hogan's 3 iron. Find clubs that fit you with the right flex and the heads do not make that much difference. That large top line is more about confidence than reality. If you believe you cannot hit blades, then by golly you can't.

[odstore]

All anybody played 60 + years ago were blades and by and large they were all better ball strikers than today.

I'm not sure this argument holds water since there were far less recreational golfers 60+ years ago. The more people that play, the larger the range of "ball striking ability" there will be. There was also a lot less marketing of clubs that will "fix" your game 60+ years ago, so people had to do it the old fashion way.

I think it comes down to what a person is comfortable playing with and how much practice they are willing to put in.

[wachesawgolfer]

[QUOTE=odstore;223382], There was also a lot less marketing of clubs that will "fix" your game 60+ years ago, so people had to do it the old fashion way.

Exactly, the old fashioned way is to simply swing through the ball and I think the club has a lot less to do with it than the current "sell the club marketing" we are bombarded with would have you believe. I also think the newer lighter steel shafts would allow far more players to use smaller metal head clubs with a small cavity or not, if they would give them a try. The old heavy shafts of old were 130 grams plus and really limited clubhead speed for the average players.

[smith5606]

I am really amazed at how often threads like this pop up on this forum. It seems that - at least for some golfers - there seems to be some nagging feeling that there is something missing from their games. I have posted before my personal feelings about the influence of club manufacturers in promoting a culture that emphasizes golf equipment over proper technique. For my part, going back to older style equipment has added a great deal to my enjoyment of the game by bringing me back to the basics. I know that for many, this makes absolutely no sense. For them, I say ignore this post. But for others who do hear that "still, small voice" that tells asks you if you are really a better golfer for all of the money you have spent of new club technology over the years - pick up an old set of blades and a persimmon headed driver and hit them for a few weeks. They will drive you crazy for a while. But after you finally come to terms with their crankiness, you might experience the joy that made you love the game when you first picked up a club. Good luck.

[retozimmermann]

I am really amazed at how often threads like this pop up on this forum. It seems that - at least for some golfers - there seems to be some nagging feeling that there is something missing from their games. I have posted before my personal feelings about the influence of club manufacturers in promoting a culture that emphasizes golf equipment over proper technique. For my part, going back to older style equipment has added a great deal to my enjoyment of the game by bringing me back to the basics. I know that for many, this makes absolutely no sense. For them, I say ignore this post. But for others who do hear that "still, small voice" that tells asks you if you are really a better golfer for all of the money you have spent of new club technology over the years - pick up an old set of blades and a persimmon headed driver and hit them for a few weeks. They will drive you crazy for a while. But after you finally come to terms with their crankiness, you might experience the joy that made you love the game when you first picked up a club. Good luck.

I very much like your approach. I've never consciously thought about it this way even though a back to basics strategy is often applied in other areas of my life. It's a bit like fixed focal length lenses in photography, or not having auto-focus, like using a turn-table, or still enjoying CDs instead of downloaded MP3s only.

The first clubs I ever hit were blades. I only made some swings with them, I think, but that feeling of this pure little clubhead has never left me since. My putter is pure metal, no colours, nothing. My bag is black, my irons forged without any colours and my driver has a plain black head... I think I have a pattern here

[JessN16]

I like my long and mid-irons to be cavity-back, and my shorter irons and wedges to be blades. For the most part, that's how my bag is arranged. I'll never be a great golfer but I'm "less bad" with this arrangement.

As for what someone "should" do from a morality-of-the-game standpoint, I don't think that's my business or anyone else's business but theirs. As long as the clubs are legal, play your own game.

Jess

[mattymz1]

Just my opinion, but I don't think 20 handicaps should play blades. Many of the best tour players don't even play blades due to lack of forgiveness. Even the greats mis hit the ball a lot, so if you can't break 90 than you should stick with cavity backs. The blades will help you a tiny bit on the best day of your career, but they will kill you on an average to poor day (which is many days for a 20+ handicap). Should probably wait until you're in single digits or get shallow cavities (like mp-60s or r7 TPs).

[GolferDot]

I use older clubs, don't have a philosophy on blades or game improvement, but I love my clubs, I know my clubs and from 150 yards out when I am 15 feet right of the pin and someone says good shot all I can think is that's not good I was aiming for the pin.

[erwintrace08]

IMO, bottom line, it all depends on your goals and perspective on the game like the everyone here is saying. If you want to get better, most likely lessons will help you much quicker than using a tougher club to let you know if you are hitting it right/wrong. If you don't want to invest in lessons and want to do it on your own, you need to know two schools of thought:

1) Blades will give you the feedback to know you are hitting them incorrectly, thus you will improve

2) Cavity backs will give you more forgiveness and it's kind of like training wheels on a bike. They will help you gain confidence and bad shots won't be that bad. So they can actually "cover up" your swing errors.

Like one of the guys said, the game is hard enough, why put yourself out there. But if you are a glutton for punishment, I would say go for the blades because you probably want to challenge yourself.

Bottom line again is all about what you feel confident with and what direction you want to take with the game. If you don't have the time to put in, I would personally say to go with Cavity Backs because you can at least enjoy the game with straighter shots and not having to worry about scoring bad.

With this game, the less you have to think and worry about, the better...

[retozimmermann]

There is one other argument I haven't yet heard but for me it actually a major factor: weight distribution of a club.

We don't necessarily have to take blades vs. GI CBs, let it be an MP-60 or a MP-57, maybe also Titleist AP-1 and AP-2 (have never had them in my hand).

Personally I find the weight-distribution with smaller clubheads much, much more agreeable than the head-heavy GI irons. My MX-25, as good as they are, they are distinctly heavier in the head than elsewhere. And if you just don't quite like that, you tend to keep looking.

Has this been an issue for anyone of you?

[LaPuzza]

I went straight from playing Wilson Tour Staff FG-17s (2i-pw) to my current Nike Ignites. I have played the blades since I started 5 years ago, but only started playing a lot this year.

The blades were, honestly, a lesson in tough love. I learned golf under the premise that if I did something the least bit wrong, I was going to pay a horrible, horrible price. The tradeoff was that I really felt good when I hit a good shot, and I could do a good job of diagnosing what I'd done wrong if I screwed up. As has been said, I could tell you where the ball went without looking.

The Ignites, by contrast, feel the same no matter how you hit em. That took a while to get used to. It doesn't bug me now, though.

The difference is that I've developed the confidence with the Ignites to play something that more closely resembles golf. Before, if I had a sand trap in front of the pin, I'd always aim left or right and play safe, because I didn't have a great chance of getting over. Now I actually think about the shot, what I need, and what I can accomplish. The first time that I had the guts to go for a green, over the water, 160 yards out, was fantastic.

With practice and equipment changes, I've gone from the 120s to the 100s this year. I'd estemate that about 5-8 strokes have come off because of the Ignites. However, after reading this thread, I'm really tempted to pull out the old blades and see if I'm man enough to hit a 2 iron blade out of the rough.

EDIT: One more thing I miss on the blades - the thin line at set-up. Took me forever to realize that shots with the Nike clubs didn't line up by themselves like they did with the Wilsons.