Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 6226 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
So I began my lessons about one month ago and since have proceeded to play the worst golf I have ever played, to the point of not keeping score at times and not finishing out the last two holes to retain some emotional dignity. I put my swing on camera and I can see all of the horrible flaws I never imagined I had, I am now in the middle of a swing change and it's just horrible to be honest. I'm sure it will be worth it in the long run but I am one miserable golfer in the long run. Thanks for letting me rant....

-AJ

Where I play: Mission Viejo CC and
long Beach Skylinks

In My Red Cleveland Club Count Bag Today;
Hibore XLS 11.5* w/ Diamana Redboard Flowerband 63 S 2009 Launcher 3WD HT 17* w/ Graffalloy Epic 87g S Hibore XLS Hybrid 22* w/ Graffalloy Epic S and 25* w/ Project X 6.0 CG2 4-PW w/ Project X 6.0 HL...


Posted
Yeah, it will take a while for sure so don't get discouraged.

I mean, look how long it took Tiger to complete his swing change. Granted he wasn't playing terrible through the change, but he wasn't "Tiger" either, you know?

I started a swing change over a year ago and it's getting closer. I've always had a very long swing like John Daly and I made the commitment to shorten it more like a Davis Love swing. It was pretty ugly for a while but this year I had my lowest career round in a casual round, my lowest round in a tournament and my best stretch of golf ever.

Hang in there.

Posted
Been there totally. Things that work when you are very young and athletic leave you at some point or keep you improving at some point. I got awful before I got better too. There was very little I was doing according to convention when I got my first lesson. In the past I saved everything with quick agile hands. I didn't think at all about getting it "too far inside". What the hey was that? Swing plane? Is that a swing that flys? Wrist cock? What for? One-piece take away? Does that mean I only get one slice of pie?

My Clubs
Nicklaus Progressive XC Irons: 3H,4H, 5-GW
Ray Cook SW & Gyro 1 Putter
Taylor Made Burner Driver 10.5
Taylor Made V-Steel 3 & 5 MetalsMy Home Course: Indian RiverMy Blog: Rant-o-Rama-Ding-Dong


Posted
That is normal with all sports, tennis, golf, etc. That transitional period is tough as you leave your old habits and learn new ones.

Posted
I know just how you feel. I'm going through the same thing right now. I've completely changed my swing to combat my worst enemy, the dreaded slice. It is helping but becuase its new its uncomfortable and i really have to stop myself going back to old habits. Although at first i was carding in the 100s recently the hard work and weekly lessons are really paying off. I shot my best ever score in a 9 hole competion: 40 front nine which is 6 over at ou course. My main advice would be to just stick with it no matter how frustrating it is and practise practise practise.

In my ozone bag:

905r 10.5 Graphite Design YS-6+ R
909 F2 15.5 Aldila VooDoo Fairway S
Benross VeloCT Resuce 21 Grafalloy ProLaunch Platinum R MX300s 4-PW KBS Tour S MP-T10 50/8 Chrome 54/11 and 60/7 Studio Select Newport II 35"


Posted
I am in the same boat! Since my lessons, my irons have picked up, but my driver has gone into the toilet. I have faith, though. I think it's important not to get discouraged.

Driver: Nike Ignite 10.5 w/ Fujikura Motore F1
2H: King Cobra
4H: Nickent 4DX
5H: Adams A3
6I 7I 8I 9I PW: Mizuno mp-57Wedges: Mizuno MP T-10 50, 54, 58 Ball: random


  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
Well I'm not as miserable anymore. My putting (worst part of my game) has improved drastically, I'm not worried about 3 and four putting when I hit the green with 20ft left to the hole. There's also something to be said about hitting my 4 and 5 irons and comfortable as my 9 iron and PW. I haven't been playing many rounds lately, mostly practicing, so I hope to see the handicap go down soon.

Where I play: Mission Viejo CC and
long Beach Skylinks

In My Red Cleveland Club Count Bag Today;
Hibore XLS 11.5* w/ Diamana Redboard Flowerband 63 S 2009 Launcher 3WD HT 17* w/ Graffalloy Epic 87g S Hibore XLS Hybrid 22* w/ Graffalloy Epic S and 25* w/ Project X 6.0 CG2 4-PW w/ Project X 6.0 HL...


Posted
That is normal with all sports, tennis, golf, etc. That transitional period is tough as you leave your old habits and learn new ones.

You are right and it is well documented. It is better for someone who is interested in golf to take lessons in the beginning, and develop good habits as a result. Unlearning old habits and then learning the correct techniques is a difficult process, and many students get discouraged. As a golf instructor, I can tell you that it is also difficult for us to watch a student go through the agony. We have to tell the student, "Patience, patience, patience", and when the student hits a good shot or makes a good swing, give excited encouragement.

When I first played the game, I was self-taught, and became fairly good (9handicap). However, I wanted to get better because I love the game. I took lessons from the top teaching pro in our area. He watched me swing, and asked me what my handicap was. When I replied that it was a 9, his response was a good one---"Boy, you must have a good short game." I used to bring the club inside on the swing away, and then loop at the top to make the downswing. He taught me how to swing the club away on the correct path, and then come down in the same swing path on the downswing. As a result, I became more consistent, and picked up distance as well.

Mitch Pezdek------Dash Aficionado and Legend in My Own Mind


Posted
My Dad is a PGA teaching pro and he says that the hardest thing he deals with is people that get lessons, then get frustrated by the fact they are not instantly better and revert to their old swing and habits. Depending on how big the changes you're making are, one day it's just gonna 'click' and you'll start the see the improvments. As long as you stick with the program you'll improve dramatically once it clicks for you.
Driver: SQ DYMO STR8-Fit
4 Wood: SQ DYMO
2H (17*), 4H (23*) & 5H (26*): Fli-Hi CLK
Irons (5-6): MX-900; (7-PW): MP-60
Wedges (51/6*): MP-T Chrome; (56/13): MP-R ChromePutter: White Hot XG 2-Ball CSPreferred Ball: e5+/e7+/B330-RXGPS Unit: NEOPush Cart: 2.0

Posted
My Dad is a PGA teaching pro and he says that the hardest thing he deals with is people that get lessons, then get frustrated by the fact they are not instantly better and revert to their old swing and habits. Depending on how big the changes you're making are, one day it's just gonna 'click' and you'll start the see the improvments. As long as you stick with the program you'll improve dramatically once it clicks for you.

Good post. Your Dad is correct. People forget that the pro or instructor wants his or her students to improve, and it is frustrating for the teacher AND the student when good results are not forthcoming soon enough.

Mitch Pezdek------Dash Aficionado and Legend in My Own Mind


Posted
I kind of agree with Jim Hardy on this one, "if your next ball is not better", than the teaching may not be as helpful as one may want to believe. I hear all the time people saying they just took a lesson and now they are awful. Improve on what you have, which is better than you think, rather than have some instructor getting you into a lot of arbitrary static positions which may not work for your natural motion.

Posted
I kind of agree with Jim Hardy on this one, "if your next ball is not better", than the teaching may not be as helpful as one may want to believe. I hear all the time people saying they just took a lesson and now they are awful. Improve on what you have, which is better than you think, rather than have some instructor getting you into a lot of arbitrary static positions which may not work for your natural motion.

There are two ways to classify students:

1. Those who are fundamentally sound and need small changes to improve. 2. Those with poor fundamentals who basically need to relearn the golf swing and forget everything they tried before. Trying to make small changes in their swings is putting bandaids on a broken bone. It just does not work. Their next ball will probably be worse than their last, but that is expected. Golf is a simple and natural game if learned correctly. Golf is a difficult and frustrating game if learned incorrectly.

Mitch Pezdek------Dash Aficionado and Legend in My Own Mind


Posted
I was thinking about this when I looked at a guy's swing on Swing Academy. He took the club way inside on the takeaway, then lifted to a more vertical plane at the top, dropped the hands down and flattened the shaft out on the downswing and then finished on a plane that was more vertical than his shoulder plane at address. His setup was good, he got into a good impact position, he had good extension on the follow through and it looked like he hit the ball pretty solid at least on that shot. You can't fix that swing with any simple advice. It was beyond my expertise to help.

My Clubs
Nicklaus Progressive XC Irons: 3H,4H, 5-GW
Ray Cook SW & Gyro 1 Putter
Taylor Made Burner Driver 10.5
Taylor Made V-Steel 3 & 5 MetalsMy Home Course: Indian RiverMy Blog: Rant-o-Rama-Ding-Dong


Posted
I always have this thought in my mind

"It doesn’t matter if you spend a billion dollars taking a million golf lessons, it still depends on you."

I still recommend people to take a golf lesson. You can learn pretty fast and getting the right information from those teaching Pros. And sometimes you think you're doing wrong, it's actually right. When you think you're doing it right, it's actually wrong. It's really good to have a Pro looking at your swing. They can catch your mistake pretty quickly.

I had a Pro taught me when I was young, so I have a good fundamental. But now I learn, improve, and fix everything myself. But that because of good fundamental.

Those teaching Pros are there to help you, to give you right information, and to fix your mistakes. But remember, it still depends on you........

Driver TP Burner 8.5* Stiff
3 Wood SQ 15* stiff
5 Wood SQ 19* stiff
Irons MP 67 (3-PW) stiff
Wedge 52* and 56* stiffPutter Mtisushiba Ball


Posted
i know exactly what the OP is feeling... ugggh... ive been taking lessons on and off all my life and trying to add a few yards here... specialty shots there... trying to add to my weak arsenal of shots from all over the place... really is tuff on the ego
RUSS's avg drive - 230yrds and climbing

Posted
Just remember your goal is to get better later which means suffering some setbacks in the short term.

Tiger Woods, Justin Leonard and other pros who went through swing changes had to play lower quality golf and suffer for a year or more. If the best golfers on the planet take a year to suffer through swing changes for the better, you know the average golfer will suffer even more.

I am at that point now where I can play pretty decent golf, but will not get any better unless I am willing to trash my solid 7 handicap swing in an effort replace it with a better one.

SubPar

Posted
There are two ways to classify students:

I think this is very well said,trying to band-aid a swing that is totally flawed does not work or can't.I asked my friend who plays with us once a month about one guy in our regular foursome,is there anything you can do too help him with his game,he said about him that he would have to be willing to start from scratch again and forget everything he knows to try and improve him,he said a band-aid would not work in his case.My friend is a ex Aussie golf instructor.

aeroburner tp 10.5 stiff
superfast tp 2.0 3 wood stiff
Halo 25 and taylormade tp 19 degree hybrids
miura cb 202 and wedge
tp 52* wedge, tp 56* taylormade spider mallet putter


Posted

I started a swing change about 3-4 yrs ago and since I have gained 50-60 yds off the tee, dropped my handicap by 20 plus strokes and now no longer come in last when I play against other people. Stick with it and it will pay off-bigtime

In My Hank Haney IJGA Bag
Driver: FT Tour 9.5 w/ Aldila Voodoo Stiff
3 Wood: i15 15.5 w/ avixcore red stiff
Hybrids: Rescue 09 19, 22 w/ fujikara fit on stiff
Irons: 4 & 5 MP-52, 6-PW MP-58 w/ KBS Tour Stiff Wedges: MP T-10 52*, 58* w/ KBS Tour StiifPutter: Fastback 1 34 inBall: : Pro...


Note: This thread is 6226 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.