Hip movement

[schapman]

Just wondering something...

I come from a hockey background into golfing and some of my hockey stick shooting tendencies seem to move into my swing.

Once thing I notice is that when I transfer weight, I really lean into the swing which results in my hips moving towards the target on downswing. Is this okay? or something I should be trying to avoid with more of a just hip rotation but no side to side movement?

I find it easier to hit down on the ball this way, but I think that might also be stance related in not leaning forwarded enough if just trying to do a hip rotation swing.

[RC]

Hockey players frequently make great golfers... but it can be that way with many sports because the basic throwing or hitting motion is to start the engine from the ground up on the downswing. If you analyze a hockey shot, the lower body opens the same way it does for throwing or hitting a baseball, or shot put, or ad infinitum. The thought of the hips first sliding and then opening is (in my opinion) not a good one since the motion is all happening together; if you think slide then open, you will be late and weak. That is my opinion and opinions are not worth a lot.

[MPS67]

Very good points RC,

but think about this...

I believe that If you first start your hips with a very subtle hip bump towards the target (or even slightly right of the target) then the path of your club is more likely going to travel closer to your body and also from the inside. IMHO, this is a good beginning move with the subsequent opening turn & slight upwards movement of the hips.

Schapman, I'd say the lean and rotate of the upper torso is good as long as you first initiate with the hips. Let the hips first do their job to get the weight moving forward and position the upper body into the correct position. Don't let the force of your upper body striking down push out the hips.

[tm22721]

The Shawn Clement videos on youtube called 'Downswing Weightshift' and 'Hogan Power Move' are the clearest explanation IMO.

Ben Hogan had one of the most repeatable golf swings in history because he spent countless hours eliminating complex timing moves like lateral shift and crossover release. It is hard enough to keep the arms and body synchronized. Throw in complex timing requirements and you add inconsistency particularly under pressure, and as we age.

[jambalaya]

Amen, alleluhiah. Once you get beyond a subtle bump of the hip forward I call that a slide and we don't want that. And that bump just needs to be a natural part of the downswing not a conscious movement. I think it is simply your weight starting to settle on the front leg. The bump just happens. I've tried to make it a conscious part of the swing and like everything else it just gets exaggerated and adversely affects that other parts.

[MiniMoe]

that move toward the target is the best move in golf. Everything about the swing should generate momentum toward the target. Stay balanced, and all is well. Hogan and Moe Norman had the same move. Moe had a very distinct lateral move toward the target, but that was Moe.

[jambalaya]

that move toward the target is the best move in golf. Everything about the swing should generate momentum toward the target. Stay balanced, and all is well. Hogan and Moe Norman had the same move. Moe had a very distinct lateral move toward the target, but that was Moe.

I don't disagree that it is a good move, but did Moe have to think about it? Was it anything but an integral, natural part of his swing?

[schapman]

I don't disagree that it is a good move, but did Moe have to think about it? Was it anything but an integral, natural part of his swing?

So from what I gather, as long as I'm getting proper hip rotation while leaning into the swing I'm fine.

I found if I just try and rotate my top half I end up sweeping the ball instead of hitting down on it. So i sort of want my right side rotating and pushing towards the target which, with a proper posture means I'm hitting down into the ball. It's what my natural swing is like, I was just messing with it too much :) I find it harder to do with a driver because the extra length makes me sweep too much so that needs a lot more practice.

[RC]

I don't want to be oppositional or pushy about this but I want to offer an opinion. The little slide idea is definitely a bad swing thought for my swing. I need to think only to rotate the left hip around as soon as the hands and right shoulder start the drop down -- it happens together. I restrict the hip turn on the back swing, trying to hold as much tension as possible -- I do not want the right hip to get behind me, or the right leg to straighten. As the left hip clears, I then want to drive the right hip around as hard as possible to fully release the right side. On video, it looks like the left hip does a little bump forward, but this is a result, not a beginning or swing key effort. A normal swing will naturally have a small move as weight shifts, but the key thing for power and good squaring up is the clearing move of the left hip. When that is done correctly the rest falls into place. The modern rotational swing has very limited hip slide -- it is more like a hip snap around as your weight goes onto the left leg. Go skip rocks, throwing them 3/4 underhanded, and you will see -- hip slide is not what you do to snap off a hard throw. If fact, trying to slide the hips to start a throw will seem very awkward. The same is true in the golf swing. So, yes, get to the left side but let that happen as a result of total flow triggered by a drop of the hands and quick clear of the left hip. Contrary to intuition, this actually makes it harder to come over the top because the rotational motion (if you drop the hands and right shoulder) will naturally swing the club outward, then square, then hard left after impact.

These are key elements of the current concept of a model swing in my opinion. Admittedly, there are other ways to talk about it and other ways to hit a golf ball -- so I am just sharing what works for me. When I allow a little slide to start the downswing (which I do not want at all,) I can never get my hips open fast enough to the 45-50 degrees (so you can see the left pocket) at impact from the rear -- I'm too slow and lose drive through the shot when there is an unnatural slide. A proper hip clearing will naturally take you to a left leg weight bearing finish, relaxed right leg gently balanced on the toe, and the right shoulder ahead of everything -- a beautiful finish.

[jambalaya]

I am with RC, I have tried all kinds things like hip bumps, driving knees forward, planting the front foot all as a key to get the downswing started and so far all of them ultimately failed me. They worked great for a range session or a round or two but became too much of the focus and I lost sychronization. I don't know, you see pro's and their videos all the time talk about swing triggers like that and maybe it truly works for some people so I can't say for sure it won't work for you. I think you have to experiment like everyone else and create a swing that works for you. The idea of leaning into the shot is not a bad one as long as you don't lose balance and fall too much towards the ball. Work hard on a really good, solid backswing that gets you in great position to hit the ball and some of these things on the downswing will eventually fall into place.