How good do you need to be to play on PGA tour?

[Lefty-Golfer]

6600 yards isnt that long at all. Thats a pretty average course. Thats around what i play for school. And i never hit anything more than an 8 iron into a par 4 green. And to be completly honest im not even one of the top 5 longest hitters off the tee on my team. 7100 is pretty long and challenging. However, over the summer I played a course that was 7402. This is just ridiculous!!! 615 par 5, 492 par 4.That is a long course...

I agree 6600 par 72 is not long. 6600 and a PAR 70 for a typical golfer plays much longer....and on tour they play par 70 at 7200 give or take...that is VERY long.

BTW there was a comment Saturday on Pres cup coverage. In the practice rounds Jordan was playing against either Mahan or Glover. They said MJ is an 8 handicap and the pros put Mahan in as plus 6 for betting.

[deronsizemore]

I agree 6600 par 72 is not long. 6600 and a PAR 70 for a typical golfer plays much longer....and on tour they play par 70 at 7200 give or take...that is VERY long.

I heard them talking about MJ also and him playing/betting against someone in one of the practice rounds. They said whoever played him gave him 4 shots a side and that wasn't enough. Said MJ plays better than an 8 I guess although from watching him in the US Open Challenge, 8 seems about right.

http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tourname...air/index.html

Q. What's his alleged handicap? SEAN O'HAIR: His alleged? I would say -- I think he said he was like an 8, which was the biggest crock I've ever heard in my entire life. Q. Did they warn you or set you up? SEAN O'HAIR: He won the bets on the first hole, let's just put it that way. He is a good player, though. Q. What did he shoot, ballpark? SEAN O'HAIR: He shot below his handicap, let's put it that way. It's like Hunter said, the guy, it's not the prettiest thing in the world, but he knows where it's going. He actually struggled a little bit on the putting green, and so it would have been ugly if he putted a little bit. Q. So Michael came in with an 8 handicap on Monday; how many shots did you give him? SEAN O'HAIR: I gave him 12 total.

Looks like he got 6 a side instead of 4 though.

[ctyankee]

6600 yards isnt that long at all. Thats a pretty average course. Thats around what i play for school. And i never hit anything more than an 8 iron into a par 4 green. And to be completly honest im not even one of the top 5 longest hitters off the tee on my team. 7100 is pretty long and challenging. However, over the summer I played a course that was 7402. This is just ridiculous!!! 615 par 5, 492 par 4.That is a long course...

Agreed. However, to me the difference between a guy on the tour and one that is not rarely gets down to his driver/fairway metals or long irons, it's whether he can make the scrambling 8 footer for par to keep a round going.

That said, I played Beth Page Black last week where 12, 13, 14 and 16 played directly into the teeth of the wind. So, on the par 4's (12 and 16) that means 501 and 490 and the par 5 13 is 608 - all into the wind. Miss an approach shot and you pray to end up in a trap because the rough will kill you. On 12, the blues were up and I killed a drive over the large fairway bunker that covers half of the fairway, then you look back to where the pros hit it from (if the championship tees were out) and you just have to marvel at it. During the U.S. Open, I watched several foursomes play from that tee on Friday and even the longest hitters hit to the right of the trap, leaving them a LONG shot into the green. I mean if you hit the ball 330 without wind, that means perhaps 300 against the wind - with a shot bailed somewhat right, meaning something like 220 into the wind for your second shot. If the pin were back on 12, I'd be thinking of it as a par 5 and would be quite happy to move on with a five.

[ctyankee]

Jordan wasn't required to submit an entry, but his most telling words in discussing the Challenge were: "I'm not going to be embarrassed." His USGA Handicap Index is the same (1.4) it was when he last posted a score in spring 2007, but Jordan says his goal will be to shoot 85 or better.

This is a quote from Golf Digest's Challenge website (Beth Page Black). That's all I need to know. A guy that doesn't post his scores, doesn't have a valid index to my thinking. With that, what his index is or isn't is meaningless for any real discussion.

[Leftygolfer]

This is a quote from Golf Digest's Challenge website (Beth Page Black). That's all I need to know. A guy that doesn't post his scores, doesn't have a valid index to my thinking. With that, what his index is or isn't is meaningless for any real discussion.

That is the truth. If you haven't posted a score and you have a ghin number, it is either a vanitycap or a sandbagging number (Jordan is the first). He is better than an an 8 but not a one.

It is a tough pill to swallow when you see your number going up and up and up.

[mctaylor22]

Let's put it this way. Tom Lehman finished 185th on the money list last year and his scoring ave was 71.98. This on courses that tend to run over 7,200 yds and are just wicked tough.

Well yeah you can if you've played with some of them before. From first-hand experience--those guys aren't all that different from the low handicappers (no more than +5). One could argue the distance difference all day and i'd still say look at Jim Furyk. Furyk posted a 278.5 average driving distance this year with a 64.84% GIR. Look at his putting--28.25 per round. Accuracy and putting make all the difference. Although i'd have to say the major difference between us and them is the putting. I cannot tell you how many times i've lost a round to a few guys I know because of their ability to just drain putts. I'll miss birdie and settle for par from 15 ft. They'll hose it for birdie from 20 ft.

[cshark2011]

Poulter was a 4 only because his boss forced him to pay full greens fees when he played in competition....... so poulter never play in competitions, hence the 4 handicap.

[inthehole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctyankee

Absolutely. I don't care what sport it is - at the top of the heap - they are unbelievably talented. Take marathon running. 99 percent of the population couldn't run one mile in under five minutes if their life depended on it. A top marathoner can pull off each and every mile in under 5 minutes and do 26 of them in a row.

Agree on the talent it takes to make it to the top of the heap in any sport; but your analogy with running seems a bit off.   Running is about dedication to physical conditioning - seems everybody can run to some extent or the other; hitting a little ball with a long stick accurately & very far is something many people physically can not do.      I can post a counter arguement as an electric guitar player ... I am proficient after playing for 30 years, but even if I practiced 8 hours a day, I wouldn't ever be an Eddie Van Halen or Randy Rhodes - there's an inherent aptitude that those have that make it to the top ... sure they work like hell at it, but you have to have that ability, that not everyone has.     Same applies to golf IMHO....

[Chicago Lefty]

On the Haney Project last night Pat Perez mentioned that he was a +6...

[Righty to Lefty]

I think that the most important starting point is your lowest scores that you've ever posted. If you've shot 8 or 9 under then you've got the game to be a pro because all pro's have the ability to go low and if you don't have that then you've basically got no shot from the beginning.  The pro's go through good and bad spells just like we do.  I saw one tourney where Camillo shot 79 and he had just won the week prior so pros have about a 17 shot swing that happens in their game when it goes bad just like we do but nothing makes up for 79 like comin out the next day and shootin in the low 60's.  After you have the ability to shoot low numbers then everything else comes into play such as accuracy, mental, consistency, and all the other traits that make up a pro. The former head pro at my home course, who held a tour card,  would play off of a +7 in our skins matches, go out and shoot 9 under, and hope that  one of his two birdies that wasn't converted to a par by giving the course strokes would hold up.  Witnessing someone dismantle a golf course is something I think everyone who thinks they have game needs to witness in person.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

I think that the most important starting point is your lowest scores that you've ever posted. If you've shot 8 or 9 under then you've got the game to be a pro because all pro's have the ability to go low and if you don't have that then you've basically got no shot from the beginning.  The pro's go through good and bad spells just like we do.  I saw one tourney where Camillo shot 79 and he had just won the week prior so pros have about a 17 shot swing that happens in their game when it goes bad just like we do but nothing makes up for 79 like comin out the next day and shootin in the low 60's.  After you have the ability to shoot low numbers then everything else comes into play such as accuracy, mental, consistency, and all the other traits that make up a pro. The former head pro at my home course, who held a tour card,  would play off of a +7 in our skins matches, go out and shoot 9 under, and hope that  one of his two birdies that wasn't converted to a par by giving the course strokes would hold up.  Witnessing someone dismantle a golf course is something I think everyone who thinks they have game needs to witness in person.

Good perspective. A favorite local course of mine is about 6400 yards from the blue tees and rated at 71 with a 130 slope. It's pretty tough for me and a good round with my 19 handicap is in the low 90's. A tour pro from those tees would probably break 60 most of the time. even from the backs at 7000/74/135 they'd destroy this course.

[Sing Golfer]

3 quick comments / thoughts:

1) A golfing buddy at my club (also a 2 handicap) is friends with a PGA Tour player (winner in 2010). He gets 6 a side while it is often close, he rarely wins

2) The difference between scratch and the + 3 or 4 you'd need to even consider a serious crack at competing is about the same as scratch to 18 handicap. It becomes exponentially harder.

3) I've played with a guy ranked in the 200's in the world. Get 3 a side - I have never won...

[Righty to Lefty]

They abuse most golf courses because they are so adept at getting the ball in the proper place on the greens, they get up and down from everywhere, of course they putt well from inside 15 feet with excellent distance control on everything else.  My friend who has the amatuer course record here said that it was very humbling and showed him just showed him how far he had to go when he shot 4 under and lost the match by 5 strokes!

[Gioguy21]

Originally Posted by Sing Golfer

3 quick comments / thoughts:

1) A golfing buddy at my club (also a 2 handicap) is friends with a PGA Tour player (winner in 2010). He gets 6 a side while it is often close, he rarely wins

2) The difference between scratch and the + 3 or 4 you'd need to even consider a serious crack at competing is about the same as scratch to 18 handicap. It becomes exponentially harder.

3) I've played with a guy ranked in the 200's in the world. Get 3 a side - I have never won...

1) no name for the golfer? shady.

2) agreed

3) again, no name, shady. 3 a side and you're a 2.9 golfer...how many times have you played him? what's his handi? how close was it...i could say i played a scratch golfer, he gave me 8 a side, i played him once and shot 2 over him and then tell you "i've never won..."

in the words of nfl today...'COMON man...' no names...you serious?

[2tyme0809]

Basically if you can shoot under par consistently that's a good indicator. I wouldn't use your handicap as a gauge because you can have a low handicap but that's not what you shoot everyday it's what you shoot on your best days and kicks out the bad scores. I'd also say that you should be playing on a legitimate club something with the slope of 74.0 from the back tees.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by 2tyme0809

Basically if you can shoot under par consistently that's a good indicator. I wouldn't use your handicap as a gauge because you can have a low handicap but that's not what you shoot everyday it's what you shoot on your best days and kicks out the bad scores. I'd also say that you should be playing on a legitimate club something with the slope of 74.0 from the back tees.

Once your handicap in the +2 - +4 range then your handicap isn't near as important because basically in those ranges you have the ability to shoot really low numbers. Simply shooting under par consistently isn't enough because if you shoot 2 or 3 under par for 4 rounds you are going to get waxed over the course of a 4 day tournament by guys who shoot really low when the conditions allow. Like I said in a previous post I have watched my friend and the pro go at it here and my friend shot the course's amatuer course record or 66, AND LOST BY 5 STROKES!!!.  It would be easier for a 25 handicap to shoot even par than it would be for him to make up those five strokes.  You need to be able to shoot WAY under par on good days,  3 or 4 under on a mediocre day, and even par on your horrible days!

[golfyboy4]

Originally Posted by LongballGer

I hear all different kinds of stuff when ask that question.

Some people make it sound like it's as tough as shooting a 59 every time you play and others say if you are a +2 and shoot even par on most courses in tournaments you have a good chance.

How tough is it really to make a decent living on the Nationwide or PGA tour?

at least shooting low-mid sixties on munis every time,and on tournemant courses mid-high sixties every time.

[Sing Golfer]

Originally Posted by Gioguy21

1) no name for the golfer? shady.

2) agreed

3) again, no name, shady. 3 a side and you're a 2.9 golfer...how many times have you played him? what's his handi? how close was it...i could say i played a scratch golfer, he gave me 8 a side, i played him once and shot 2 over him and then tell you "i've never won..."

in the words of nfl today...'COMON man...' no names...you serious?

1) Arjun Atwal

3) Asian Tour player - not going to name him because a couple of people on this forum will work out who I am and I'd prefer they didn't.

Played at least half a dozen times. He wanted to give me 4 a side but our local pro and I play straight up and he was giving him 3 a side so I only took three.

The closest was when I was 2 up after 9 after shooting par and he was 1 under. All was going well until he birdied 5 of the last 6 to beat me on 17. I shot even on the day off the back tees (course rating 73 slope 150)