Lift, clean and place

[MonkeyClaw]

Today at the Buick Invitational they were allowing the players to lift, clean and place the ball. Why do they allow them to do that? I always thought it was only for plugged balls. Are they allowed to do this in the rough? Hazards? Do they declare it before the round starts?

Any info would be nice. Seems kind of odd considering everyones playing the same course on the same day.

[walk18]

fairway only. ever tried to hit a ball with a clump of mud on it? not fun.

[bogeyhitter25]

You have to allow the lift, clean, place at the Buick. If not, the lowest score would've been 82.

[denver_nuggs_15]

They were playing lift, clean, and place in their own fairway I believe. It makes sense. Hitting a ball with mud on it sucks. And increases your score.
You can lift, clean, and drop with a plugged ball anywhere on the course (besides the hazard) if I'm not mistaken.

[tjy355]

fairway only. ever tried to hit a ball with a clump of mud on it? not fun.

It's called GOLF!!

Not sure what game they are playing on the PGA Tour.

[Jay-Bird]

It's called GOLF!!

Agreed.

I think it's BS for them to lift, clean and replace. They're professionals. A little mud on the ball every now and then is NOT anything unusual to the game. Getting mud on the ball in the fairway is analogous to the ball rolling into a divot in the fairway , or getting a nasty sidehill/downhill lie in the fairway , or having a ball get deflected off course by a branch or a leaf or whatever. The PGA is pandering to a bunch of primadonnas. Not saying that all tour players are primadonnas, some are not, some are. I am aware that is up to the discretion of the Committee to call whether or not the weather/course conditions warrant a rule exception like "lift, clean and replace" - I just think it's ridiculous. ... Wait, someone took a picture during my backswing ... can I get a ruling - I want to take the shot again...

[Jenks465]

Their just trying to make the game as fair as possible! Plus whos going to pay admission (what does it cost, $50 a day to go to a tour event?) to watch players hitting the fairway and then missing the green from 120 yds because half the ball is caked in mud! I want to see 'proper' golf being played and the result not being decided by who got the least amount of mud on their ball!

[Spackler-esque]

Their just trying to make the game as fair as possible! Plus whos going to pay admission (what does it cost, $50 a day to go to a tour event?) to watch players hitting the fairway and then missing the green from 120 yds because half the ball is caked in mud! I want to see 'proper' golf being played and the result not being decided by who got the least amount of mud on their ball!

I'd still pay. Skill's got a lot to do with golf, however, luck's a part of the game, too. Shit happens, is another way of putting it. Lift, clean, and place is for plugged balls. I don't see why this should be extended to all balls in the fairway.

[MiniMoe]

Mud on the ball sometimes happens in golf. When it not a little mud, but a lot and on every hole, something has to be done to make the game fair for everyone. Trust me, they don't do this for just a little mud. Conditions have to be really bad.

[zeg]

You can lift, clean, and drop with a plugged ball anywhere on the course (besides the hazard) if I'm not mistaken.

Only on "closely-mown" areas. That is defined as anywhere mown to fairway height or closer. Basically, that is fairways/greens plus any paths mown through the rough. If you're plugged in light rough, you don't normally get the relief.

[RemyM]

There is no reason the pros need to play lift, clean and cheat! The USGA didn't use it at Bethpage in 2002 and that place was under water. One year during the Master when it was quite wet a reporter asked the tournamnet chairman if they would be using lift, clean and place. His answer was "we play golf here." If your ball plugs, the rules allow relief, if you're in casual water, the rules allow relief, otherwise play it as it lies.

[GaijinGolfer]

With all the rain they got this week, its to be expected that there would be a little mud on the ball from time to time.
They allow the players to lift, clean and place so that they can clean mud off the ball and make the ball perform normally.
Even a little bit of mud on the ball can make it do strange things and by allowing the players to lift, clean and place it makes it fair for everyone.
Im sure the organizers of the Buick would hate to see the championship be decides by mud on a ball that makes it fly crooked or causes a well-struck putt to go off line.

[microcrayfish]

It's still fair for everyone if everyone is playing with the same conditions.

[chipper2]

Tournement sponsors lay out big bucks for these events which we all watch and enjoy (on TV or in person). For that kind of money they are paying they should be allowed to make the rules of play for their events.

[tjy355]

Their just trying to make the game as fair as possible! Plus whos going to pay admission (what does it cost, $50 a day to go to a tour event?) to watch players hitting the fairway and then missing the green from 120 yds because half the ball is caked in mud! I want to see 'proper' golf being played and the result not being decided by who got the least amount of mud on their ball!

In my opinion, "proper" golf is a game where the player does not put his hands on the ball until it drops into the cup.

What I hate about it is amateurs watch it and see them picking up and cleaning off their balls and think it's something that's allowed in a normal round of golf. Sure, there are conditions that warrant it. Usually when it's so wet that balls are plugging. Really doesn't seem to be that bad at Torrey. MUD on your ball is part of golf. It's a game that is played outdoors in a variety of settings with variable weather conditions. I watch the PGA tour to see good golfers make good shots including recovery from bad lies or mud on the ball, not to see some pampered prima donnas that get to pick up their ball and play it from a perfect lie every time.

[Fourputt]

It's called GOLF!!

The Tour plays wimp golf. They get breaks like that under conditions where my Men's club wouldn't even consider it. I play shots with mud in my ball all the time... I don't even give myself a break in a casual round...

I repeat... the Tour caters to wimps.

[Fourputt]

With all the rain they got this week, its to be expected that there would be a little mud on the ball from time to time.

Nobody is going to be putting with mud on the ball anyway. At least the USGA rules I play by allow you to clean your ball once it's on the green. As for the rest, you hit your ball and you take your chances. Mother Nature's moods should have no bearing on the rules unless the playability of the course is severely affected (plugged lies, large areas of casual water, etc.). A little bit of mud on the ball shouldn't even be a factor.... there are ways of accommodating for that. The Tour has just gone overboard about its "image".... poor guys who might look silly when playing that rare shot that doesn't look perfect. Personally I think it makes the game less enjoyable to watch. I want to see the pros playing the sort of shots I have to play, but instead they always have perfectly set up courses and perfect conditions. Even when nature tries to make it more interesting, the Tour committee steps in and invokes a local rule to save its image. The Tour is more like Fantasy Golf for real. The real downside is that it makes the average weekend player think that he is entitled to special consideration too. He starts improving his lie when it isn't allowed because he sees these poor Tour pros doing it and thinks it's how the game is supposed to be played. I love the US Open and the British Open, the only tournaments left where golf is still played by the rules.