My Swing (TN94z)

[TN94z]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

Well if it's easy to do it and you can repeat and make a divot or kiss the ground where you want without the ball there at speed then it should not differ at all when the ball IS there.  The feel should be the same you have to learn to trust it.

Thats tells me you may have a massive hit impulse or flinch problem.  IMO it's a golf stroke not hit and then tension you feel as you swing should differ little from practice swings at speed to swings with a ball at speed.  There's no 'hit' that you do at the ball.  You just make your swing and the ball gets in the way.  This issue screwed me for literally years and I never even knew it.

If the ball is creating the stallout raise up and flip it is a hit impulse or flinch and it's not a golf swing and will never be as consistent as a swinging motion.

In my experience as a hitter flinched the more balls you hit the worse it gets.  It's shocking what happens when you can put a stroke on the ball rather than a hit.  Way more consistent.

A good example would be a simple high pitch shot.  Ideally there's not tension or hand eye coordination hitting of the ball there.  You just swing with soft hands and the ball pops up.

Anyways good luck with it even if you choose to ignore my suggestions.  

In my swing thread the first one I put up I am still hitting not stroking.  It was tightening up through impact.

For me learning this singular concept has been very important.

No ignoring of any suggestions here. Just friendly debates. I welcome all advice. And don't get me wrong, I don't "hit at the ball." Well, I don't mentally try and hit at the ball. My biggest issue is hip turn. I feel my swing is solid, even at the start of the downswing. But once my hips stall, it all goes down hill. That's why I feel that working on this specific issue, would be helped by swinging both with and without the ball. I make practice swings all day at work when I can, obviously without the ball. So I'm working both ends to fix the issue. 

Dont think that I'm ignoring you by simply talking other options

[Jack Watson]

Ok,

Well,  I thought about your situation a bit more...You have too much good stuff going on in your tempo and backswing to not get really good.

Everything happens for a reason.  The legs straightening hip stall could be a result or reaction to how you straighten the right arm aggressively downward from the top.  Your right arm is effectively straight at impact.  If the club head is swung slightly too much downward and not enough forward the body feels it and reacts to balance itself and also to shallow the path to prevent running into the ground (legs straighten).

So when I mention hit impulse that could be one form of it. (Swinging down at the ball a bit too much causing a need to pull up last second for good contact)  The ball is down so swinging down would  seem to make sense to make contact.

So one thing to try is change your intention to extend the right arm from down at the ball to forward way out in front of the ball (way targetward) .  That's if you like the feel of actively extending it.  

Another way to say it would be if you were throwing a ball you wouldn't throw it at the golf ball on the ground you'd throw it to the target.

Another way would be imagining north south east west

So at address the ball is north So starting down you go east a touch and as your hands circle they end up west or even a touch southwest coming through.  

Another thing that might help is left hand only swings.  At first they are a challenge.  I'd bet that would be tough for you.  You have to keep turning on those.

I dunno,  just trying to help.  You are too good to have that impact.  IMO just a form of hit impulse infecting otherwise solid mechanics.

Love to see you post success!  

 

 

 

[TN94z]

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Ok,

Well,  I thought about your situation a bit more...You have too much good stuff going on in your tempo and backswing to not get really good.

Everything happens for a reason.  The legs straightening hip stall could be a result or reaction to how you straighten the right arm aggressively downward from the top.  Your right arm is effectively straight at impact.  If the club head is swung slightly too much downward and not enough forward the body feels it and reacts to balance itself and also to shallow the path to prevent running into the ground (legs straighten).

So when I mention hit impulse that could be one form of it. (Swinging down at the ball a bit too much causing a need to pull up last second for good contact)  The ball is down so swinging down would  seem to make sense to make contact.

So one thing to try is change your intention to extend the right arm from down at the ball to forward way out in front of the ball (way targetward) .  That's if you like the feel of actively extending it.  

Another way to say it would be if you were throwing a ball you wouldn't throw it at the golf ball on the ground you'd throw it to the target.

Another way would be imagining north south east west

So at address the ball is north So starting down you go east a touch and as your hands circle they end up west or even a touch southwest coming through.  

Another thing that might help is left hand only swings.  At first they are a challenge.  I'd bet that would be tough for you.  You have to keep turning on those.

I dunno,  just trying to help.  You are too good to have that impact.  IMO just a form of hit impulse infecting otherwise solid mechanics.

Love to see you post success!  

 

 

 

Good info as one of the things I am working on now is maintaining the rear arm flex longer...at least to A6. This will hopefully promote having my hands continuing to move forward which will lead to extending toward the target. I do have that early extension that you are referring to and that's a priority right now. I honestly feel like my swing is good up until A5 and then it start going downhill. I am planning on hitting the range this evening with some new drills and we will see how it goes. Then I'll continue that until the impact picture changes. I appreciate the suggestions! Keep them coming..

Edited May 9, 2017 by TN94z

[Jack Watson]

You will succeed.  Just takes time and clear focus.

[TN94z]

Worked on my new evolvr drills today and got some video. I did see some improvement, I believe. But I'll wait until I send my next videos in some time next week. I'm going to try and get a few more practice sessions in.  Contact was anywhere from great to shanks, but I'm not focusing on that yet as I am really exaggerating these movements. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by TN94z

[TN94z]

I've been working really hard on fixing my hip turn and changing my impact and follow through picture. So far so good. 

Here is old impact left, new on the right

Edited May 14, 2017 by TN94z

[TN94z]

And here is the follow through progress

[Jack Watson]

 

[TN94z]

Spent 40 minutes on the range working on the same hip drills. The first week of the drills went great. The last week I have started hitting hosel rockets, fat shots, etc... I'm hitting the ball like crap and it's gotten very frustrating. I can't even hit half swing, punch shots. I feel like I'm just slapping at the ball half of the time. I hope this gets better soon...I'm scared to play a round. 

[TN94z]

I played 9 Monday just to get away from the drills for a day. I hit the ball okay and scored okay, but had some pretty bad mishits. I guess this is just coming down to working the changes into the swing.

The one thing I am noticing is this, when I really focus on getting my hips to continue to turn and not stall, for whatever reason, it is making me swing super fast. I believe that is where my issues are coming in now. My tempo has sped up drastically and I think I am all out of sync. Monday, I would take a club more (every shot) and swing easier. When my tempo did not speed up, it worked out like I had planned. Many times, though, it would get too fast and the bad shots would come. So now I've got to concentrate on that as well...

[iacas]

On 5/8/2017 at 8:27 PM, Jack Watson said:

IMO if you are committed to changing something then remove the ball entirely and swing.

For most people it doesn't work that way.

That simply would delay things. It'd take a one-step process and make it two steps.

And, practicing properly often involves both - rehearsals where you're not hitting the ball, followed by slower motion swings where you hit the ball (doesn't matter how well) doing the move properly.

I see little point in practicing the move without a ball exclusively. Golf isn't a sport where we make swings at air.

[Jack Watson]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

On 5/8/2017 at 5:27 PM, Jack Watson said:

IMO if you are committed to changing something then remove the ball entirely and swing.

For most people it doesn't work that way.

That simply would delay things. It'd take a one-step process and make it two steps.

And, practicing properly often involves both - rehearsals where you're not hitting the ball, followed by slower motion swings where you hit the ball (doesn't matter how well) doing the move properly.

I see little point in practicing the move without a ball exclusively. Golf isn't a sport where we make swings at air.

Well,  you said for most people,  and I do not have a large sample size to draw from in my own experience in golf so...

I draw from my own personal experience.    As a player there was a time when I wanted to change the shape of my swing very badly in a certain way.  I have found that when I tried to do that and hit a ball at the same time it was too much for my brain and I would find contact with the ball over making the change or the change I saw on video would be miniscule if present at all. 

I found though that if I removed the ball I was able to make changes.  Now,  obviously this was making an air swing that might not even hit a ball on the ground.  No accuracy,  but that's the point!  Free the brain from having to put clubhead on ball for a minute and focus on something else to harness it a bit!  I removed all intention of a precise strike or clubface control by doing this.  I am talking now seriously make a swing or two look at video...most times exaggerate the move even more...look at video.  Repeat repeat repeat.   Same exact video angle all the time!   This is not a fast process I am just explaining what I was doing.  Backyard was perfect for this feel vs real experimentation feedback loop I was working on. 

The only purpose of this was to develop a way I could learn to somewhat repeat what I was looking for.  Stage two would be targeting a tuft of grass and doing it again video.  Stage three would be maybe going out to the range and like you said rehearsing a few and then bringing in the ball and striking it.

For me going out and shanking and slicing a bucket of balls working on a change costs money and it's hard to convince myself it's a success regardless of what I see on video.  I've done it several times.

So,  before I did the whole air swing thing I hit many buckets and basically it was not effective at anything except maybe excercise and grooving compensations to the point I built myself a nice yip impact block on full swings.  Yes I admit at first I thought I could beat golf by athletic ability alone like every moron high cap that beats balls ingraining moves that need to be eliminated if they are ever to improve.  Without a couple simple workable concepts imo hitting balls is really the worst thing to do for a relatively inexperienced player.  So,  that's my take.

For background info on me I played tennis in college and it was sport of focus from maybe sixth grade on and I took proper instruction with one coach for quite a while.  I feel I maximized my potential there.  Often in college I would surf in the morning early (skipping class obviously) and then for the afternoon travel for matches and play my singles and a doubles match.  My coach seriously used to ask me if I surfed that day because he said I played better when I did!

I have a lot of experience in teaching athletics of various sorts  including surfing and soccer and I have been told many many times by many people that I have a natural affinity for teaching in a minimalistic simple fashion.  I succeeded in many ways in athletics but for me it was always a personal focus on technique that led to success.  Growing up I could never jump high or run very fast or lift heavy weights,  but I developed a pretty good jump shot in hoops.   I could kick a ball far and score goals in soccer. I am just not one of those naturally athletic fearless types who as a kid could jump their bike real huge or Ollie a skateboard a couple feet into the air or do a tuck flip off a diving board into a pool without thinking a bit how they did it.  I can identify those types and imo there's something happening there most of the rest of us ain't got!  Sure I could flip but it was an extended body flop of sorts lol.  In tennis I got decent,  but it was from good instruction,  good practice, an absolute ton of hours of hard work,  and if I might say so very good technique.

 In golf I can't break par so I don't really ever bother people in swing threads unless I can speak from personal experience.  I realize I am not qualified to develop a swing to say a par shooter,  so I don't try to.  

I think I might have some thoughts relative to some though.  Sorry for boring those who have read this but I must say I value my time spent on this site highly;  most sites are crud these days filled with Internet warrior liars who don't offer much true Quality.

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

I'll keep this on the short side because some random person's Member Swing thread isn't really the place for this kind of discussion…

13 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Well,  you said for most people,  and I do not have a large sample size to draw from in my own experience in golf so...

By most I'll clarify: the vast, vast majority. I'm not talking about 53% here.

13 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

I draw from my own personal experience.    As a player there was a time when I wanted to change the shape of my swing very badly in a certain way.  I have found that when I tried to do that and hit a ball at the same time it was too much for my brain and I would find contact with the ball over making the change or the change I saw on video would be miniscule if present at all.

That doesn't mean you were doing it right or most efficiently.

You may very well have been capable of making the change - and making it more quickly - with a ball if you'd done it differently.

13 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

The only purpose of this was to develop a way I could learn to somewhat repeat what I was looking for.  Stage two would be targeting a tuft of grass and doing it again video.  Stage three would be maybe going out to the range and like you said rehearsing a few and then bringing in the ball and striking it.

Sounds slow. Not for everyone, but for a good chunk of people.

13 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

For me going out and shanking and slicing a bucket of balls working on a change costs money and it's hard to convince myself it's a success regardless of what I see on video.

That's not what I advocate in the above linked post, either.

Generally speaking, here's what I see:

• You tell people to fix the move without a golf ball. They work and work and film and record, and eventually, they've got a great practice swing.
• You say "great, now do that with a ball" and they almost immediately and completely revert to their old swing.

Simply put, what I recommend to people is:

• A rehearsal swing or two. Often these too are shorter, slower, simpler swings.
• A shorter, slower, simpler swing focusing just on the "piece" while hitting a ball.
• As you become proficient, the swing gets less short, less slow, and closer to the full swing.

Practice at the edge of your ability, but do it with a ball. The approach there blends no-ball practice (the first bullet) but immediately ties it to a motion you make with a golf ball.

If you're shanking, topping, etc. the ball too much, you're not doing it slowly, "shortly," or simply enough.

[Jack Watson]

Good stuff,  @iacas it makes a lot of sense.

Sorry for the temporary threadjack 94...

[TN94z]

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Good stuff,  @iacas it makes a lot of sense.

Sorry for the temporary threadjack 94...

No worries on my end

[TN94z]

Spare time has not been a friend of mine lately. I have been practicing when I can though. I did buy a cheap net so that I could get some better practice in at home since I'm mainly working the drills with punch shots right now anyway.

I did play last Sunday though. I felt quite a few shots that really make me think I am heading in the right direction. A HUGE key for me right now is tempo. As long as I swing with good tempo and do not let the swing get fast, everything seems to stay in sync. My problem is when I focus really hard on the hip turn, it seems to really speed up my arms for whatever reason and the shot pattern will vary considerably. But when the increased speed is absent, I feel like I am making progress.

With that being said, I have had some TERRIBLE scoring the last couple of rounds. Last Sunday, for instance, I shot a 90!! I could not hit a green to save my life. My 100 yards and in game has really gone down the tubes lately and that is so frustrating. I have even been playing the white tees with Jacob and still scoring bad, but it's because of my short game. From the white tees, it's rare for me to be anywhere outside of 110...mostly about 85-95 yards. My irons and woods were descent but the tempo thing created havoc on a few shots causing me to have a couple of drops....which is pretty uncommon for me. On the bright side, my pitching was much better. My putting is always pretty good, so I never have too many complaints there. I know this is just the growing pains of swing changes, so I'm not too concerned as long as I have it straightened out by next season. This year is a building year for me and I told myself I would do whatever it takes to get to my goal

Edited June 6, 2017 by TN94z

[TN94z]

We joined a new country club and I haven't had much chance to hit the range lately, but we have been playing a few rounds (mostly 9 holes for me after work).  I met Jacob out there today and had the BEST 9 hole round I have had in years!!!  We played the back 9. I missed 4 birdie putts inside 8 feet (I attribute half of these to the greens being punched and throwing my ball off line). I get to 18 and all I had to do was hit my 2nd shot into the par 5 anywhere around the green or on it (distance-wise, I should have easily been on) and get up and down or 2 putt for a birdie which would have put me at 35. I ended up flying the green (somehow) and getting stuck behind a tree. I hit a very crisp pitch but it got a tad high and hit a limb and dropped.  Long story short, I ended up with a bogie to put me at 37. I was SO frustrated with that. So then we made the turn to get in a few more holes. I had a birdie putt one 1 but it was outside 12 feet, so no expectation from me to make it. I hit a perfect 2nd shot on the number 2 par 5 that hit the green, bounced twice, and then was nowhere to be found. But I got up and down for par after dropping. I proceeded to lip out a 3-4ft birdie on 3 and then had par on 4. So I ended up 1 over through 13 holes. It was great. The highlight of the day was getting up and down on a par 3 from the treeline. I pulled my 5 iron pretty bad to the left and hit a perfect pitch that hit and stopped about 6-7ft from the pin. I actually made that put. It was great. It could have been a record breaking round for me had I dropped some putts.

Anyway, I said all of this to give some credit to Evolvr. I haven't been working on the changes too long but I feel like there are already improving my ball striking.

[TN94z]

Here is a screenshot from yesterday. I am loving how my hands are actually getting forward at impact now. That is a much better picture than where I started with the early extension and flip. I am going to continue hammering the drills that I am told to do.